i dont think it does.

because if people wanted to do the arts, they'd do the arts. while schools are expensive, sitting at home and writing lyrics or sketching out drawing isnt.

What using AI does, is let them get adoration from fools and idiots without having to make an effort in lifting a finger.

If you gave me a Star Trek Replicator, I'm gonna be eating all kinds of gourmet shit. It doesnt mean I want to be a world class chef, it just means I'm a lazy fat fuck that wants excess without effort or cost.

Stolen valor

Not sure why you got a downvote (at time of writing this). It’s absolutely the truth that using AI is laziness, not an accessibility tool. It’s unfortunate though. I find its use morally reprehensible and yet can’t help but be charmed by some of the batshit garbage it spits out. It’s definitely a 7-fingered sword.

I cannot pick up an Almighty Fan Brush^tm^ (for those people old enough to remember), and paint you an apple. My wife can and so can our daughters.

But, I can design in CAD an injection mold, then machine it all out, then crank out a million of the little bastards.

Why, because my brain isn't "wired" to think like an artist. But it is wired to think like an engineer and toolmaker.

Honestly as a musician what I was hoping Suno would be is an intelligent loop pedal or backing generator that I could plug my instruments in and be supported by when there's not enough people for a whole band. I was so disappointed it's basically a slop generator.

I think a better tool for me would be a normal loop pedal which can be be disciplined in tempo by the drummer in real time.

Up/down votes dont matter anyway, don't concern yourself with it. They are a root evil and should just be ignored. If lemmy wanted to actually be different, and better, it'd get rid of the damned thing cause all it does is lead to mindless, thoughtless bandwagoning and dopamine addiction directed behavior.

They're also stealing music from REAL musicians like me and trying to sell it and replace us. Fuck em, hope they fucking die.

The problem is the fucking stealing of other people works.

They're not even really using the ai correctly. If you really absolutely must use ai, there is a way to do it without ripping people off, harming artists, or being a petulant jackass on the internet.

Draw something. Draw something, upload it to your precious ai, "ok llm, here is what I can draw at my current level, tell me what I need to work on and give me exercises I can do to improve."

Boom. You can actually become a better artist, still use your precious ai, not hurt anyone, and actually develop a skill, and improve your life without a single artist getting harmed or a single person getting ripped off.

Sure... If the AI could consistently give accurate, relevant answers and not conflate everything it has been trained on together resulting in incorrect or even entirely made up garbage.

It's still theft. Nobody gave permission for their work to be used as training data.

Or better, check out a book from the library because ai will give you the art equivalent advice if putting glue on pizza

Thanks for taking the time to go into it. It seems like people are having this conversation in every community and every friend group and most of the time it's just people talking past each other.

Anyone, despite disposition, can learn to paint an apple. The idea that art is exclusive to those who can think a certain way is a myth.

if it improves your skills in your own opinion it isn't wrong.

It's not likely to actually improve your skills even in your own opinion if it's not actually giving good advice or techniques. 🙄

The question has never been whether people want it. I think it's pretty clear they do. The problem is whether people want to spend the time in money, or skill, to get it.

I would love to be able to paint sci-fi pinups. But do I want to trade 10k hours of other stuff I'm already better at to do it? Once I painted them, would I truly love the work, or would I just see all the imperfections and be grumpy about it?

Artists have it hard. They spend unending hours on their passion and, in the end, see everything through a critical lens. And when they spend a month of time on something amazing, no one wants to trade a day of salary to own a copy, or a month of salary to own the original.

AI is so wildly popular because it's cheap, and through the lens of the consumer (read untrained eye), the best of it evokes emotions they get from a piece that would go for hundreds or thousands of dollars.

The true fucked up part. If the courts all say NFG, dump all your diffusion models that are full of copyrighted material. They'd just go back and commission artists in distressed places and rebuild the models from properly purchased material and we'll be right back where we are.

Still image diffusion isn't even expensive to run,

I genuinely disagree.

Making something, regardless of skill level or whether you achieve what idea you had in making it, is what makes an artist. A poor artist or one that's not the best ever is still a valid artist, right? Then that should apply to you as well.

If people didn't still want to make things, craft stores wouldn't exist. Music stores wouldn't exist. Guitars would be a rarity. I follow a lot of zoomers who have entire channels dedicated to making things.

I don't think that stage ever stops for anyone

I feel that the idea that only certain magically wired people can be artists is a myth. I also think that our idea that only good artists are valid is some capitalistic nonsense. "Bad" artists are also valid artists, and our attitude around people creating things should change.

C'est la vie

Disgusting. I'd crawl out of my grave and strangle someone if they pulled this.

If people got a proper art education they would know drawing is more fun.

If that were true, there would be people saying they are engineers for doing this.

There aren't.

But there's people saying they're artists and musicians for making slop....

Have you considered the end result is not the purpose? The doing of art is what gives it meaning, to the artist and the viewer. It's what makes it satisfying, even if it didn't turn out how you wanted exactly.

is not the purpose? The doing of art is what gives it meaning, to the artist and th

I'm in a business that has a lot of artists. These are observations I make.

I never thought of it in those terms but I can see that being a possibility.

I agree. Sam Altman and his ilk deserve prison for stealing every intellectual property on the internet (among other crimes).

Arts in state schools isn't about mastering a particular medium, it's about introducing learners to the different forms art can take and giving access to specialised equipment that's too expensive for them to buy without committing to the art form. Sketching and lyrics writing are fine for some, but others won't learn they want to learn more about photography, or sculpture, or pottery, or an instrument, or any number of other things if they don't actually get the opportunity to try it. If more people understood art, AI artists wouldn't get that adoration in the first place.

The end result is what other people see and what gets you paid. That's why people want to do it via AI.

Personally, I could sink 10k hours into whatever visual art and I'll never be good at it. I don't enjoy it either. I can only hire an expensive artist or use AI if I want something made. Since using AI art sucks, I've opted not to continue work on the video game I started work on a while ago. An alternative is to pay for asset packs from a studio that sells them, but then it's just an asset flip.

Exactly... the difference in energy use is like driving a Ranger vs. an F-650. Sure, the big chungus models are a lot smarter, but it's diminishing returns on energy use to capability. Cutting out the fluff and using a much, much smaller and lighter model that is tuned for the task you are using it for is a lot more efficient, and people with macbooks or gaming computers can run a model on their computer instead of subbing to a cloud service.

Hm, I suppose it is a question on semantics then. In the context of the original post, there is art I would like to create, but cannot, and if AI could help me achieve what I envision, that wouldn't be a bad thing. So I suppose I could ohrase it as, not everyone can be the artist they want to be.
In my case, sure, I could compose some music technically. But the massive gap from what is in my head and what would come out would be so frustrating I would not enjoy the hobby. And that is why I don't do it. So if AI could make it so I would be willing to do it, that would be a good thing.

AI is so wildly popular because it's cheap, and through the lens of the consumer (read untrained eye), the best of it evokes emotions they get from a piece that would go for hundreds or thousands of dollars.

I just went to an art museum that had a bunch of Van Gogh's sunflower pieces on display, and I can assure you, AI art will never be able to invoke the kind of emotional response as I got from looking at those paintings. I'm not an artist, I haven't taken an art class since high school, so my eye is pretty damn untrained. But even I can appreciate the history of the pieces, the artist behind the work, the headspace he was in and how it affected the finished piece, the extreme conditions he had to overcome just to finish some of the pieces. That's a huge part of what evokes emotion in an art piece - knowing the story of the art and the artist. And that's something AI art will never have.

AI art is cheap, sure, but it's hollow, and people will always be able to tell that.

The first time I saw Rembrandt’s work in person I felt this sort of awe. It wasn’t just a picture of a painting in a book or an image made by a computer, they felt like time machines, a hole in the wall with a real person from the 1600s sitting on the other side looking back at me. I don’t think we need to limit ourselves to just the masters but they do a fantastic job at making a point, real art is an experience not just something to look at

You think this shit happens overnight?

to be fair, if the masses were educated we'd be on track to solve a shitton of our problems with that change alone.

As a completely separate thought, different people can find different things fun. And one person can find multiple things fun. I know I'm not indicative of a typical person, but I'd compare making your own art to Factorio, and prompting images from stable diffusion (or similar) to Cookie Clicker. I've put over a thousand hours into Factorio, and I like to think I'm mediocre at it, but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying games like Cookie Clicker (I say "like Cookie Clicker" because the incremental genre has moved on since then but that's besides the point).

Desired isn't the same thing as important.

Bruv we've had industrial clothes making for decades and people still make their own clothes because they want to. People will still want to make art even with slop everywhere.

That would be a good thing? You don't want a challenge or to grow? Develop a skill? You don't get a sense of accomplishment if you just have a computer steal other people's effort for you.

I'm also in the business of art abd I'm standing by what I said.

How soullessly capitalist it is to think the only purpose of art is what money you can make off of it. Who cares about meaning, the almighty dollar is the only thing important in life.

have a nice one

edit: Ohh a downvote from agent_nycto on "have a good one", in that case, welcome to my blocklist of people that aren't worth hearing from, don't worry you're in like company with all the other trolls.

I don’t personally use llms anymore, but when I did, it was for use cases where either I wanted a thing to be reasonably easy/fast or I would do without (a character sketch for DnD) or for visual representations that quick google searches weren’t turning up.

I watched a video where someone sent AI images to dress makers so they could make dresses. If I wanted a very specific type of dress, and I can’t draw this seems like a great way to communicate my desires and intentions.

https://youtu.be/LeGcbc87JxU

I realize I’m a little bit of a liar. I will sometimes use Be My AI to help alt-text/caption pictures that happen to have a lot going on. So they get a list of snacks instead of something like “table with various snacks”.

What? I want the computer to help me make the art I have in my head. How is that stealing? I want to say more crescendo, or make the low line lower. Or have me hum something and it write it. Then combine it with something else I hummed.
And I have plenty of areas to be challenged, and to develop. But only 24 hours in a day. I can't be an expert in everything. But that doesn't mean I couldn't enjoy a greater variety of things if I had help.

You aren't making anything. You're tracing.

A person can take one of those predrawn things on a peice of paper. Then fill it in with colors of their own choice. Another person starting from the same peice of paper can do the same. Odds are they won't choose the same colors. So each finished product is different. The people didn't make the outline, but they still made the finished product. And it can still bring them joy. Nothing wrong with that.
Many artists have seen lots of art they didn't create. Especially those who study art. That is one way to learn. They then take all that knowledge and make their own art.
A person can use AI to just "trace", but they could also use it to truely create what they see in their mind, which would certainly be making something.

So just FYI the rule of thumb with alt text that I've heard is: imagine you're describing the picture you're looking at to someone you're talking on the phone with.

So that usually means keeping it brief and precise to only the aspects which are relevant to the context it's being posted in.

Sorry if you've heard this already, but yet helped me a lot.

Tracing can bring people joy, but, it's not the same. You're cheating yourself out of an experience. You'll never be as proud of anything your AI agent makes as a real artist will be proud of their own work, because you didn't make it.

Or, to put it another way: you ordered a sandwich at Subway. You told the worker just how you like it, picked all the toppings, etc. Eating the sandwich might bring you joy, even! But, did you make a sandwich? Obviously not.