If they could draw or make music, they wouldn't need a robot to do it, and they clearly want to but don't have the skills.

What it's actually highlighted is how overworked and underpaid everyone is now. When a single salary could comfortably support a whole family, people had more time. When only one person needed to leave the house to earn money, the rest of the family had time during the day to help with the domestic work: dishes, laundry, gardening, etc. Then the evenings could be spent indulging hobbies.

Now that we live in a world where you need to have a dual income to barely get by, both partners are working 8-10 hours per day for the paycheck and then coming home to another 2-3 hours of domestic work. It's fucking exhausting and there isn't time to focus on quilting, whittling, playing music, or any of the other fun and creative hobbies that my grandparents got to be into.

So these AIdiot tech bros come along and offer to sell you the feeling of doing those hobbies without having to spend the time or energy to actually do them? It's shitty, but I understand why a lot of people are taking that deal.

I agree. I think AI fills a creativity gap for average users - worth making quickly once, not worth pursuing an artist to make it.

I don't think AI will replace appreciation for human art, as human art is as much about soul as it is skill. AI can only ever do half the equation, but it's the half that the average person doesn't have and isn't quite willing to pursue.

I'm sure there's an argument to be made that AI copying human art is watering down the value of art, but with how people recoil after finding out it's AI, I think the bigger risk is never having it disclosed in the first place.

Creating a piece of art myself is different than enjoying someone else's creation. There's a place for both. Lots of respect for, say, professional musicians. They have natural skills and years of hard work that I don't and no amount of hobbying will get me close to them. But I still find satisfaction in twiddling around on a piano and writing my own tunes. AI helping people enjoy their hobby more is a good application, IMO.

Contrast that with people using it to "side-hustle" and try to scrape up some easy dollars by flooding the world with passionless slop, that's a different thing.

If you look at the history of work in the US though, there was only a short window of time that you had that extra time. Unless you were wealthy, your kids started to work at a very young age. Have you seen the pics of kids where they look like they could haggle with you and rob you? The teenage years are a relatively new concept.

Also, most of the boomer and older generations:

• Had no therapy
• Had no entertainment or education to let them know what's possible. It was by who you had contact with.
• If you were a POC, your life was most likely hell
• If you were gay, your life was most likely hell.
• If you were a woman, you life was most likely hell.

Yes, the goal is for everyone to get back to the lives of upper middle class, white men.

Ya, I enjoy playing guitar and making little finger picking riffs. I also enjoyed using music gen to mix different styles together and writing lyrics for them (eventually, it gets a bit old though).

I never even considered uploading those songs and sharing them, nor starting to churn out slop to make 5 bucks on Spotify. It's legit asshole behavior imo. Spotify itself makes it hard enough to make money when you are a proper musician, I'm guessing it's even harder now.

There's "skills," and then there's innate talent, and then there's practice. Anyone who embraces AI art clearly doesn't have the innate talent to recognize it's crap, and their rabid eagerness to jump on the latest trend implies they probably doesn't have the patience required for practice either.

Not that music and art classes and exposure aren't important, but 12 years of mandatory gym classes definitely didn't turn me into an athlete (if anything, it made me hate physical activity. Maybe if we had gone on hikes instead of playing dodgeball...)

I think not everyone who wants to be artistic can be. I sort of hear music composition in my head. But despite playing a musical instrument all through college, I could never play anything by ear. And memorizing music was really hard. So if AI could get what I hear in my head out, that would be astounding. It can't yet, but you get my point.
I also have poor fine motor skill, so drawing is out. Even with a computer and mouse it just is too hard.
That said, I think what this really says is that people have a desire to consume more art, and they are willing to use AI to get it.

Arts in school is just a tool to proliferate and transmit cultural values to the next generation to upkeep a certain base line in the population. Can’t change my mind (but im open to constructive criticism and input)

But wait, there's more:

Houses cost so much that people don't have space to do hobbies they used to. There's no garage or shed to set up as a maker space or studio or to setup drums or a weaving loom or painting canvases.

Intensive parenting is now the norm and the expectation. Kids can't play in front of the house like they used to. They can't go out and knock on friend's doors and go to the playground without a parent from every household going along. The only time children can be left is with a screen, and you're a villain if you do that.

Expectation from romantic partners also comes into the mix. After all the time and energy drain from the things above, there is nothing left in the tank. My wife would then not be a happy camper if I told her I'm going to be in the garage for an hour for my creative hobby.

Some disposable income is also required (variable amount depending on which hobby you take up).

Yes, the goal is for everyone to get back to the lives of upper middle class, white men.

Oligarchs: Fine, then none of you poors will have it good!

I'm not sure if they really want to do art. My impression is, that those guys rather seek fame. And somehow got convinced that art is some kind of elitist thing, that leads to fame.

The middle class sprung out of a post war boom and the ruling class snatched that shit right back.

This... this is the reasonable course that's shunned by our divisive culture nowadays. I personally don't have the time or the space, but I do have a computer, so I use what tools I have. Local models ftw

Sadly. They’re all going to disappear. The new generations don’t want to work for things. And learning takes effort. They can be validated through creating artificial music.

It’s not fame they seek. It’s validation.

They’re hacks. They don’t want to consume more art. They want to pretend to be skilled artists. They are trying deity validate themselves through pretending to have a skill.

No amount of AI in the creation of music is good. Learn how to not use it.

tbh yeah. i don't use ai but art stuff looks fun and i'd like to make things but i suck at it.

When a single salary could comfortably support a whole family, people had more time

was there really time like that tho? just sounds like rose tinted glasses tbh. maybe because i'm not US based but people here were poor af back then and things got much better these days.

It depends on the place, but in some western countries this was true for a couple of decades for the upper middle class.

Eh. I don’t think it says anything at all about their desire to be an artist. I think it says a lot more about their:

• greed (desire to be paid, regardless of what they’re being paid for)
• cheapness (not wanting to pay a proper artist)
• antisocial (as in: counter to the ethos of social collaboration; not as in “I want to be a potato today”) tendencies
• low ethical standards (not caring that the training sets for all of this are built almost exclusively from stolen contracts)
• self aggrandizement / narcissism (claiming aptitude and credit in a domain that you don’t actually have any skill in, but pretending you do anyways)

I don’t think wanting or not wanting to be able to do art is a major aspect of this at all. It’s largely about wanting the money and, sometimes, the recognition, without doing any of the work it normally takes for humans to get to that point of expertise.

Anecdotally, my mother, father, and half my grandparents grew up solidly middle class in single-earner homes.

I mean... yeah and so? Public schools exist specifically to create a baseline of knowledge and experience in the population. It's part of a social contract that says, "by the time they reach adulthood, a person should be able to read, write, do math, and not want to burn everything down or kill people."

Those values are shared by most of the world. It's not surprising that schools reinforce those things, because that's very specifically what they were created for. The alternative would be what? Not have schools?

I've got two kids in their teens. They learn and work harder than I did at that age.

Apart from graphic design and advertising, art is difficult and risky for billionaires to profit off of. Human artists are notoriously flaky and difficult to work with. This is one reason Larry Ellison bought WB.

Billionaires want public schools to turn out people who are as close to robots as possible. We all know they'd prefer actual robots, but that's not happening anytime soon, regardless of all the hype. So, public schools drop anything not reliably connected to billionaires profits. They're thrilled at the prospect of getting rid of human artists.

You can get better at it, and if you want some good tutorial books I have recommendations!

I didn't think this is true at all. People love making stuff and there's a lot of younger people who are into things like crochet.

Here's how to draw in two point perspective kids!

Sit fuming in the back fucking capitalist pigs trying to shove America down my throat fuck you Mrs. Dotterson I'm too woke to learn how to draw

If you had the education, you'd know how to do all the things you say you want to do.

But you know how to play dodgeball. Do you know what composition is?

If not, or even the fact that question is tricky for people, is to illustrate my point. People want to be able to draw, and we aren't being taught how.

Ai isn't their hobby

I don't think that it fills a creativity gap. It circumvents it. It's a parasite. It gets in the way of you actually being creative and gives you a cheap dopamine hit instead of anything of substance. People learning how to do the things they want to do is what actually bridges that gap.

lol people down voted you. People be nuts

Then suck at it. Make bad art. Art isn't a competition. So, who cares if it is bad?

Sure I know how to play dodgeball, and I've had many, many gym classes worth of practice, but I was always absolute shit at it. Similarly, you can teach composition (or color theory or whatever other art technique you want), and have your students practice it, but most are never going to be more than just okay at creating art. "People just need to be taught the arts and then they won't be seduced by the siren song of AI!" assumes that education can overcome innate limitations. I will never be a good athlete, just as most people will never be good artists/musicians/writers. Meanwhile here's a tool that will produce (what AI users think is) an impressive facsimile of the real thing, and at a fraction of the effort with almost no barrier to entry.

Accidental downvoting (esp on mobile) is pretty easy, plus some users downvote posts that are in competition for visibility with their own posts (loser behavior, but it happens).

4 downvotes on a post with 163 upvotes is basically just noise.

It's also time. People want to create but learning practising. Getting through the "I suck" stage is rough.

Been in mine for several decades now.

I respectfully disagree and think hobbies are for enjoyment. If someone makes music for personal enjoyment with the help of AI tools, good for them. If another person finds joy in making "real" music without AI assist, good for them too.

So long as they know they’re making artificial music.

That is because you cannot use AI to crochet a coffee mug coaster. Take a look at in the AI “music” subs and communities. Tens of thousands of wannabe hack “musicians” all pretending to have written music.

It’s fucking gross.

Perhaps how I said it wasn't clear. When I said playing an instrument through college, I meant getting lessons and playing with official school and college bands. I had lots of education. I understand logically how to do the things. But I was unable. It takes more than education to be an artist.

I am sure "some" are. But contrary to popular belief, most people aren't trying to be internet personalities. That is a very small percentage of the people who us AI to create art.

I keep wanting to get more into music, but can never find the time/motivation to practice my scales.

I also tend to pick an instrument and abandon it every few years. I have nieces and nephews who occasionally get a second hand instrument.

People don't go to RISD to learn to be an artist, they go for the connections.

Relevant XKCD SMBC

Doubt.

You spend so much time using your clock and calculator on your phone you clearly want to be an engineer but don't have the skills.

Has nobody considered the angle that slopping is fun? It doesn't make you an artist, nor an author, nor a musician. But it makes a thing at your direction and you can point at it and say "this vaguely resembles the idea in my brain". For some people, that's enough.

(this has been part 4 on my Nuanced Opinions Regarding AI)

I HATE LLMs

But it can be fun, a little part of the problem specifically for LLMs they are addicting. Image generation version less so unless it's for porn

But I mean these things are great for shit posts

Weirdly, I started to lost my sight a year or so ago, I had already coded a bunch of prototype games but if I can't read it's hard to code.. might as well do the art side (my vision is like distorted I can still see but not whatever I'm looking directly at, like reading)

I've enjoyed the journey. Got a few games out and a Kickstarter brewing to spend time on the artwork.

My eyes let me follow my dreams by forcing me to lose my job 😂

I literally havent considered that. Probs should. It was really fun for me for a short while, but I never wanted to share my creations or pass it off as my own.

"Make a tank out of liqorice allsorts but have Big Bird hanging out the top using a stick of liquorice as a cigar" "hahahahaha thats really funny".

It got boring fast though.