Pretty much, yup :(

Internaut: I have issues with finding a relationship.
Sundray: Let me oversimplify a circumstance that worked for me and assume it works for you too: Simply allow everyone around you to throw the solution into your lap.
Internauts: That's not how my life works.
Sundray: Nonsense. Stop being so negative and get with the program.

You have such boomer energy in this thread.

Hey everyone, look at this user! He says he gets invited to birthday parties

When they say they want to dismantle gender roles, they only mean the gender roles that they perceive as disadvantageous for them. They still want men to perform the gender roles that are disadvantageous for men.

Taking the risk of making the first move is just one example. They don't want that responsibility, they just want guys who aren't attractive to them to stop trying to make a first move. Might as well rephrase it as "Just give up, loser. No one will ever love you" because that's basically the sentiment that's hiding behind "stop approaching women," especially when it's followed up with something like "why won't men notice me?"

The ones who chase me more often say "Have you put your faith in our lord and savior Stablecoin?"

Yeah you better.

As someone who shares DarkCloud's opinion about myself, I believe other people being shit in other ways doesn't make me not shit

Nope, but if you can recognize you're shit you're capable of working on those shit aspects of yourself. If there's something you don't like, change it

I'm shit, but less shit than I was yesterday. Small incremental improvements add up.

Those are some broad brush strokes.

I didn't say it was. It just seems a bit impractical for a romantic relationship.

that's where you're wrong. I'll kill myself after 20.

There isn’t a single therapist in your country? That seems highly unlikely and something you can still work on without a therapist, it’s slower, but you can still make progress. Look into this.

If you are single and unattached and unhappy with your location then move. Yeah, that’s a pretty simplistic idea, but work towards it. Life happens, you either try to be active or you let it happen. Again, simplistic, but also there is some truth.

My honest reaction to your reply is that you seem defeatist and defensive. Maybe that’s not true, but that’s how I feel reading your reply. I’m sorry. I am trying to help you, don’t be defensive towards people trying to reach out to you. I’m a random person on the internet, I can only respond to what I know based on your messages. The more context you give me, the better I can help.

Don’t be a defeatist. I know it’s hard, I don’t share the same experience as you. I do not know the same struggles as you, and I don’t pretend to. I have started over, I have moved (inside the same country) to foreign places I’ve never been. I know it sucks, and moving countries has to add another layer.

If you don’t want help, don’t reply.

I just throw them in a sack and take them back to my place. Got two wives that way. Git gud incel.

I don't know, let's start digging

You mean like the broad brush strokes that men get painted with on a daily basis? 🤯

Why do people keep telling me what they think I meant to say, instead of responding to what I actually said?

I didn’t assume anyone’s circumstance, I asked about a person’s circumstance.

The person I was speaking to didn’t reply saying “that’s not how my life works”, I got dogpiled by a bunch of random people who immediately responded with rage and insults.

I didn’t tell anybody to “get with the program” and the only thing I said about negativity was to note that I was becoming the target of hysterical rage, and being literally insulted, Mr “Boomer Energy.”

A lot of people seem to be bringing their own agenda to my comments, and responding to some horrible, hidden intent they I am trying to convey, and I don’t know why they are seeing something that is not there.

I’ve had my own struggle with isolation and loneliness, loss of family, trust issues stemming from abuse, with being queer and trans while growing up in a conservative community, and I care deeply about everyone dealing with being alone and unloved. And to have a serious question twisted by random throw-ins into accusations of heartless cruelty is frankly startling to piss me off.

If all someone can do is pick nits, call me names, and try to tell me what I’m “really” saying, or what I “really” mean, then I invite them fuck right off and find somebody who’s actually saying whatever nonsense it is that they’re so desperate to argue with.

Yeah, you funny

Why do people keep telling me what they think I meant to say, instead of responding to what I actually said?

Because your post lacked empathy or a recognition that the person you responded to might face genuine issues, and because you came across as believing the solution was simple and at hand.

Instead of saying "do you not have any friends of friends? ", try "Yeah that really sucks. I struggled with it for a long time until by chance a friend of mine introduced me to someone and we hit it off. But I hope you have a happier time of it in the future."

I see, thank you for actually responding in a constructive way.

I want to be clear that I have empathy for people who are lonely, even if I don't communicate very well. I've spent most of my life the same way, and I know it's not easy. I know there's no easy solutions. The only message I have is please don't give up. While there's life there's hope.

That's a great message.

If you are rich, sure, no problem whatsoever.

If you barely get by, try travelling around regularly on a whim like that. I don't consider myself poor, but I wouldn't do it, it just doesn't sound like a financially safe decision, especially considering the times ahead.

Ok, but as someone who's trans and homosexual I go out regularly and do quite well for myself. Yeah I have to put in effort to find events and such, but I put it in, find community, and then managed to find myself a wife and regularly have other people I'm flirting with or dating as well as plenty of friends not including the friends from college or growing up.

It's definitely not something to do regularly or on a whim, but sometimes people do that. I'm not saying moving like that is simple, just that is easier than when you were more likely to die on the way then to arrive

So you're saying those are true, and not absolute BS?

The Borat method.

Just join any club that women like (no not warhammer or magic). The Genz around me meet at run clubs, but it doesn't have to be serious or athletic. Concert tickets for Taylor swift are expensive but local music is very cheap. Get a dog and talk to people when you take it for a walk, get into birding, I saw MFers hooking up at the Pokemon convention. Stop brain rotting and just do anything that will get you outside of your house.

that reminds me of Ubisoft...

no not warhammer or magic

Well, you might find some trans girls there.

I was raised on the premise that women want to be left alone
I assumed that in time and when ready, they would be the ones to initiate.

I'm sure you realize now that these are both just incorrect. Get out there and talk to women. Your dick will remain dry until you can master the art of conversing with the opposite sex and making them laugh.

I thing you and I have vastly different experiences with rejection.

Not really. You really gotta keep trying. It's a numbers game to an extent. Eventually, you can always find a Mrs. Right now, even if she isn't your dream girl.

You about a size 14?

I'm saying that they often get excused with an explanation like "many women have XYZ experience which leads them to making LMNO inferences about men." And if anyone has the audacity to say "well I'm a man, and I'm not like that," then they're flamed even harder. There's even a hashtag for it. People will hit that dude with a bitingly sarcastic "#notallmen"

And yet when the roles are reversed and someone says "many men have XYZ experience which leads them to making LMNO inferences about women," suddenly that's painting with broad strokes and making uncouth generalizations. But nobody can make a sarcastic "#notallwomen" to justify it when faced with pushback.

So yeah, as long as the double-standard exists, then I'll continue to deconstruct it. I can't force the world to stop making harmful generalizations about men, but I can revoke the respect that I previously offered that went unreciprocated.

If that makes me a hypocrite, then what does that say about the people who created and reinforced the double-standard to begin with, even when I respectfully pushed back on it, and who will defend it to the bitter end no matter what I say or do?

I'm willing to call a truce whenever the rest of the world is ready, but not if I'm the only one standing in the negotiation field while shells continue to fall around me.

Go ahead and try that and report back with how it goes for you...

Yeah some women will be kind and say something like "Sorry, I'm not interested, but thank you for asking!" But they're certainly the exception rather than the rule.

More often it'll be like "Ew, I can't believe you would even ask that! What's wrong with you?!?" And then she'll go tell her friends about you and suddenly you end up on an app like tea where the rumor-mill's game-of-telephone effect morphs it into increasingly grotesque distortions of what actually transpired.

lmao - I'm middle aged and average looking and I haven't had trouble getting laid since leaving college. It's not exactly rocket science. Y'all incels need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves and learn the basics of how to convince a lady to hop on your dick.

You must have good social skills or something, good for you. But stop assuming everyone else has that.

Y'all incels need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves and learn the basics of how to convince a lady to hop on your dick.

Shut the fuck up, dickhead. You say you're middle-aged, then fucking act like it instead of throwing around childish insults. You act like "convincing a lady to hop on your dick" is the ultimate measure of worth for a man? And you use that as a basis to demean and insult people who say it's not worth trying anymore? Look yourself in the mirror, because you're the fucking problem.

Seriously, you might get laid more often than I do, but I pity you. Enjoy your sex, since that seems to be the height of attainment in your worldview.

You're literally the one objectifying women here.

This is a thread of guys saying "we heard you, you don't want to be approached. We'll die alone and we can joke about that because we're resigned to it."

And you come in saying things like "your dick will remain dry until you can master the art of conversing with the opposite sex."

You might really get laid as often as you claim, but you're the one pushing toxic masculinity and harmful views of women. I'd rather live the rest of my life without ever "getting my dick wet" again, than adopt the inane mentality and view of women as sex objects that you're promoting here.

Social skills are like any other skill. Sure, some have more aptitude for them naturally, but they can be learned. If you really have such poor social skills, I suggest getting a formal diagnosis and seeking out classes to work on it at your local regional center. You will continue to fail as long as you consider social skills as something that others 'have' and you 'don't have' and not as a set of perishable skills.

Calling consensual penetrative sex objectifying is a strange take. Sure, I'm being an dick ITT. But it's only because there's a lot of incel circle jerk going on and I personally think incel philosophy doesn't hold up against blunt force reality.

Yeah you're still missing the point. I never said "consensual sex is objectifying," I said you're being objectifying by patronizing people in a thread about "we no longer pursue women and we're pretty much alright with that" by talking down to them about their "dicks being dry" and saying they just need more skill in "convincing women to hop on their dicks."

Like, no, I have women friends I care about and I'm not going to change that dynamic just because some rando on the internet thinks he's better than me simply because he gets more sex, and claims I just need to be better at "convincing them" to do something I'm not actively seeking. And the fact that you can't see that point is even sadder on your part.

And if you think that's what being an incel means, then fucking newsflash, you're the incel here, and no amount of sex you get will change that. Afterall, it's a "mentality/worldview," and not about whether someone gets laid, right.

So again, look yourself in the mirror. And on that note, good day.

I'm just an ape on the internet, but you don't exactly come across as someone who is content with not dating. The whole context of this thread is a big circle jerk of "approaching women doesn't work to get dates, women don't want me. I'm not good enough" etc... You have to risk getting hurt if you're interested in dating. There's no way around it. And yes, I'm crude, but you do have to fuck before you fall in love.

You and I read this thread entirely differently. You call it a circle jerk of commiseration; I view it as a self-deprecating thread where guys who have given up on dating can feel some solidarity with each other (that is, until it gets crashed by chuds like you).

It's actually a healthy thing. "Men need to support each other emotionally" is something that often comes up in feminist-oriented discussions. Well, we're doing it, and you show up to call us all incels because we don't get laid like you do? Nobody here is asking you do be a "dating coach"

And yes, I'm crude, but you do have to fuck before you fall in love.

You're pathetic. Go back to the manosphere where you belong.

I've spoken to Women, and they've offered to bring this up on the next Womens meeting this Thursday. I doubt you've ever spoken to a woman, you probably don't even know the secret handshake. Go back to Twitter.

I'm calling you all incels because y'all are enjoying a pity party lmao

Behind that guy are 100's that feel this way and just keep it to themselves. It's really fun to beat up on those losers, but regular men see it and react a way that makes the problem worse. It's cyclical. Men and Women are just more choosey these days I think, and the losers caught in the middle are there to complain about it. I've not met a single 'incel' that also didn't make it painfully obvious why they were single. The effort to fix them doesn't exist, and they don't want to be fixed. These people have always existed, but the internet gave them a campfire to rally around. Money can be made off of them, so the jerk will continue until profits drop.

I will say though, there's something about not trying which has always worked for me. Desperation and confidence are incompatible. That's why it's so much easier to flirt with people when you're in a relationship already, because the stakes are low. You're relaxed and confident because you (probably) aren't trying to actually hook up. I've seen this so many times in both directions - the same jokes, the same anecdotes, that same weird laugh - all somehow land better the moment you are just goofing around instead of trying to pick someone up.

Go back to the manosphere, chud

Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

At first it reads like "Lots of men deal with loneliness and keep it to themselves, which creates a vulnerability that nefarious actors exploit." The logical conclusion is that men forming an ad hoc support group on a thread joking about dying alone is actually a healthy thing because it minimizes the attack surface and gives men a place to vent without being exploited, gives them a place to find emotional support without being demeaned or self-effacing.

But then I'm not sure if the second half of your comment veers into "the men gathered here are all incels and actually it's okay to beat them while they're down because they're easy targets and aren't worthy of basic respect" or if you're saying "actually incels are something different from what you see here, and these are just normal guys sharing a rare moment of emotional support."

You're a dumbass. I read the opinions of women. I didn't just pull this out of my ass. Clearly you don't take the time to listen to the things they say and internalize it, because if you did you would have heard the message loud and clear: "women don't want to be approached by men they don't know"

If you're pretending no woman has ever expressed that, then you haven't spent much time listening to them. And if you hear that and conclude "I can write myself an exception and approach women because I'm me, then you're the problem; not the guys who say "Heard you loud and clear; I will adjust my expectations and learn to be content with single life."

[Edit: it was a bit uncalled for]

I'm saying it's a shit pipe. A lot of young men are going to die alone and confused, and it's not even really their fault. The whole thing is a tragedy, with no clear solution that applies to everyone. My point is while you're correct in what you say, it's not constructive, and is probably making it worse. These guys are already suffering, their best shot is not being made fun of and maybe realizing they aren't getting attention anymore and need to change. More incels are created from hating on them, than probably would exist otherwise. It's team sports to everyone now. Nobody wants to change, everyone wants to be right. Incels don't scare me, so I don't go picking fights with them on the internet, because that's really what they want.