Gras-bâclé

Well damn, a pleased surprise, thank you kind Internet stranger!

He's adding the most important things of all. Shareholder value and a backdoor for his tencent masters.

But their main point, as I understand, is that the generalising critique of CEOs was missing the point that CEOs who apparently know what they’re talking about can also be pro-AI.

Um, I guess? But do keep in mind, if there were a league of companies all dumping arsenic into a river, it would seem a little odd to me to insist that "some of them aren't crazy."

Like, I think that dumping arsenic into the water supply—at all—is sort of mentally disqualifying. Only anti-social, selfish, narcissistic psychopaths are capable of doing that. There's no room for such a person to destroy public resources like that and be considered polite, if misguided company.

I worry more so that the anti-AI side is struggling to express our side of things clearly and convincingly.

Maybe. It's a question that's always worth asking. That said, though, is convincing them with reason really what we're trying to do? Have you tried reasoning with a 9/11 truther, for instance?

Reason is a very powerful tool, but it only works if the people you're talking to are interested in the truth.

Racists are not defeated because they are convinced that their welfare-queen idea doesn't make any sense, or that it doesn't bore out in the data. They are defeated when their sentiments are socially stamped out, when airing out one's racism gets you publically flogged and discarded.

I just—in general, I don't see the point in nit-picking people's arguments against AI or CEOs when public disgust for it is what's measurably important.

well ig Oracle gave OpenOffice to Apache

Credit where credit is due, they did develop an open source VCS which is something

Huh! Never knew that. Apache is definitely better than Oracle, but since it was originally held by Sun and then acquired by Oracle, I'm not surprised all the devs fled.

No idea, if companies would hand out the code, but lots of code was written by academics back then, who would generally freely share their code.

Apparently, there was also lots of what we'd call "piracy" today, at least if a certain Mr. Bill Gates is to be believed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists

The "up yours" perhaps? Doesn't seem worthy of a meltdown to me though.

Hey, you dont talk shit to Kenney! Kenney is a saint in the GameDev world and many of my learning projects would have no good assets if it weren't for him and others like him. Fuck off, Sweeney.

c to c++ isn't really moving forward, it's lateral, and i don't mean that as a slight against c++ (for once, lol). same with 2d to 3d. turns out tim sweeny just says shit thinking we're stupid, imagine that.

if he really knew anything, he would have said "c to rust," which would have also been nonsense but it would have gotten a funnier reaction at least.

Tim cries himself to sleep every night because he knows deep down he's just a cheap knockoff John Carmack.

2D games to 3D? E.g. Castlevania to Crash Bandicoot etc

Apache is definitely better than Oracle

true

I feel like we’re more or less saying the same thing here. I think the initial argument was a fairly logical and dry one about what skills CEOs do and don’t have, not, as I think we both claim is more important, that they work for companies in capitalism, with all that that entails, such that the marketable qualities of the CEO as a person are a distraction.

It’s even more whiney when you imagine it him actually saying it out loud with his real meek voice and him unable to make eye contact with kenney

https://www.dictionary.com/culture/slang/weeaboo

No, what I'm saying is that being this into AI is mentally disqualifying. We can conclude the CEO is mental because his interests are mental.

And C is also still used because a lot of low level infra still only supports that. Like, the drivers for his precious GPUs that run coding LLM still use some level of C code. So does some compilers. Those use cases are not replaced by C++. Because C++ is not a C replacement. Dumb ass argument.

so its a typo for weeaboo?

It is a fallacious argument. Both 2D games and C are still used and have actually continued to evolve and progress in new creative directions. As for the third argument, it is pure hypocrisy. Tim doesnt contribute shit to the FOSS movement and actually has spoken against its core values from time to time.

Jill of the Jungle might have been the last time Tim actually coded.

Sure. Either way, that’s not the argument that was made in the tweet. It was much more specific and easily countered, which is my broader point.

Imagine responding to one of the most wholesome people in the entire video game industry with “this is bullshit”

Real “Hans, do you think we’re the baddies?” moment

He's gone on record himself to say that he walked away from coding over a decade ago. He only returned to coding when AI models surged, but he doesn't touch the company major projects. There's probably nothing left on the unreal engine of his authorship.

Who cares anyway. They will eat all of their fortnite money on tokens before next year is over.

Isn't C++ built on top of C and able to do everything C can and then some? It's been a while since I've coded in it but I remember that being a kind of neat feature in C++. (I'm not searching it to confirm - just chatting about it)

Good grief is Sweeney an insufferable cunt.

Idk if Sweeney is trying to pull one over on people he thinks are dumb. I'd believe that he thinks those are meaningful changes because he's just a deluded twat.

It's not an exoneration. I'm just not angry at him, only derisive.

I still don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Tim Sweeney can say that he is skilled, actually, but 1), I don't believe him, and 2) his use of AI is disqualifying. He can say "but I do value the craft of making things," and I can say "no, he doesn't; here's the evidence: he uses AI."

Oh my god. I didn't even realize that was THE Kenney

Yes.

Yes, OP has edited their post to correct it.

I get what you’re saying. But that’s your thoughts not those presented in the Twitter excerpt, and I’m talking about that excerpt.

Slightly more broadly, yes one can make the point that you are, and it may have been a more interesting exchange on Twitter if it were made from the top.

More broadly, I still have concerns about the nature of “the discourse”, because I just don’t think you’re going to win many hearts and minds with this line of thinking without some change in the framing, by, eg, focusing on the harms and “evils” of AI (with the disqualification of those indifferent to such issues being a natural corollary).

But even then, I fear still that that conversation is being lost, and these sort of ad hominem attacks as we see in the excerpt and even your summary just above of disqualified people are symptom of anti-AI not knowing what to say anymore. I see your point about shaming and all, but I look around the world and honestly think it’s a pipe dream. I hope it works for you, genuinely.

That's in interesting. i guess I'm not expired with overwhelming confidence though when it looks like their developing their next generation vcs on github instead of their platform.

okay

Thinking C++ is advanced C is like thinking C# is advanced Java. Even if they were really similar at a point, they've moved on and diverged into their own thing. Things don't necessarily get better; more often than not they just change.

2d->3d -- bigger number

c -> c++ -- two extra plusses (and plus already means extra!)

games -> epic games -- it's got "epic" in the name

You don't have to be a genus to see these are all better!

All C code can be compiled with the C++ compiler, though there's some nuance (if you don't mark the C code as C, it behaves slightly differently which could mean it doesn't work).

C++ adds a bunch of language features (object-oriented programming and templates are two massive ones). This can make it easier to describe a concept in C++ than in C. But it also enables a lot of unneeded complexity (if C++ wasn't the best fit, or if the programmers aren't excellent) and the compiler is slower because of all the extra stuff. And the resulting binaries are much bigger. And it's harder to port the C++ compiler to other platforms. There's still plenty of situations where it makes more sense to use C over C++.

not producing precisely what the content creator wanted, so it favors people who don’t really have an opinion on the specifics

That's an interesting point that I haven't run into elsewhere!

AI is not the enemy. Oligarch owned AI is the enemy. (Because oligarchs are the enemy.)

Epic have a git hosting platform / alternative to GitHub?

I'm out of the loop. Who is Kenney?

lore... their custom vcs. an alternative to git. that was the only thing in this thread. did i miss something?

and these sort of ad hominem attacks as we see in the excerpt

But this is ultimately what I'm getting at: this is fine.

You have a period of natural discourse over the exact nature of the is and isn'ts, and at some point a truth is found, and any further disagreement is such you have to recognize is irrational and must simply be squashed.

It's not a lack of things to say; the people we're talking to are not listening. Targets like Tim Sweeney, anyway. Audience members actually like it when you dunk on bad people. It's cathartic. It feels like action.

If I had any criticism for these people, it's that this action tends not to metastasize into anything. We've had decades and decades of discourse over global warming, probably some of it mean, and yet nothing has really happened. Nobody wants to put in the work to bring these polluting companies to heel.

but I look around the world and honestly think it's a pipe dream.

I don't necessarily think that anything is going to happen either, but I also don't think that tempering our tones to be more civil and hyperfactual is helping.

To effect change, you need energy. And stopping people from hurrah-ing so that you can correct them on the nuances of their speech—speech that isn't even wrong, if I'm being perfectly honest—speech that is only idictable by some fractal of technicalities—stifles that energy. You lose momentum, naturally, by constantly stopping to check your shoe laces.

Anyway, I really don't mean to drag this out. I don't think you're a bad guy or anything, I just see a tone-policing thing happening here that irks me.

Gen AI is an anti-social technology that is not welcome anywhere, under any economic system.

He makes a lot of free video game assets. 3D model kits, etc. Really popular among the Godot crowd, I believe.

https://kenney.nl/

I prefer the original name epic mega games

Lol. He offers up kits, he mentions C++, and it’s a language I’ve never used (not C++). Lol

Chances are they never had any creativity to begin with.

Also anybody trying to convince you that games made with AI are a good thing, should be evaluated with the same level of seriousness as people who tell you that fast food is healthy.

I have downed my opinion on Tim Sweeney. Down yours too !