Its illegal to send weapons or money to a country that is committing genocide. Biden could have simply said he cannot legally support Israel in any way and then just not. Instead Biden chose to lie for Israel aboiut 40 beheaded babies and provide unlimited diplomatic support, going so far as to bomb Yemen for resisting.

Democratic leadership knew this would decrease turnout, they prioritized unlimited support for Israel over winning the election.

I agree but it’s like asking “where would you like to be stabbed?”

For any Democrat trying to “move to the center” I’d like to point towards Labour in UK and ask them how that’s going.

Thankfully 2028 is a political lifetime away and Newsom might not even be relevant.

Newsom would do good things for the country and the world just like Harris or even Biden 2.0 would have.

See people aren't exclusively machines.

I know people who felt that both sides at least tacitly supporting the genocide was so depressing that for their mental health they basically checked out of politics.

No, that response isn't helpful, but it's a very real thing that happens to real people. They needed a candidate that cared that people's lives were ending across the sea, and neither side offered that.

That hurt Kamala's chances in a very real way, and might even be the deciding factor for Trump's second term.

While you and I can look at this and go "Wow, that's not logical, she's way better than Trump", the Democratic campaign should have had political scientists and psychologists that knew about this well-documented phenomenon. I imagine they did, and ignored it, because siding against Israel would've cost money.

So while it's true that the choice was still objectively obvious, it's also completely true that the Democratic campaign absolutely mishandled it, because this isn't some new phenomenon, and group human psychology isn't unpredictable. It's also not the fault of those who didn't vote because of that.

Yeah, the choice was bad or worse, and people chose worse. Life sucks sometimes, they need to grow up.

Yes, I can see that it would be demoralizing, and it was demoralizing. The Schumer/Biden wing of the Democrats deserves to be cast into the bonfire of the vanities, they are completely useless. And while this might sound sarcastic, I truly believe they have ended their usefulness, if they ever had much.

But we are talking about human beings and their lives. It may not make much of a philosophical difference to compare different stances on this senseless slaughter, but it makes eminently practical sense to save the lives you can. An American Presidential election was not going to produce much of a genocide-stopping president in 2024, and I hope 2028 does better, but there were distinct differences in approach and stance and collaboration with Bibi.

Case in point, look up "Gaza floating pier," vs. "Trump Gaza resort." it's not about philosophical differences when you are starving.

Bernie also catches a ton of shit from the "Ziohran Obamadani >:C" people for blaming Netanyahu and not Israel. Since they have no goal other than making Trump win they would definitely refuse to vote for Bernard the Warlard or whatever stupid ass catch phrase they got told to say

I would still rather vote for a party that doesn't mind republicans, over the republicans themselves. Luckily I don't have to make that choice because even if the democratic party doesn't care about a single thing they say I'm pretty sure they do mind what affects them personally, like getting investigated for made up charges and having their security details taken away. The republican party clearly does mind the democratic party considering how hard they lean into voter suppression and pushing the 'both sides are the same' lie every election cycle.

Palestine is where Leopards Ate My Face meets Meanwhile On Grad. The two extremes have a common goal of destroying the country. MAGAts are shocked that Republicans are getting us into another war in the Middle East and the country is going hell. Gradbots are so pissed off with the the Democrat's ("blue maga") lack of spine against Israel that they want to burn the country to the ground in vengeance.

Yeah, Democrats deserve your vote, as long as the republicans are slightly worse!

The Gaza floating pier was used to do warcrimes, then dismantled.

Ok then if you're right why was Netanyahu mad at Biden? Why did he want Trump to win? Because there's no such thing as unlimited support and then wanting to remove the person you're getting unlimited support from

Or maybe I just don’t like genocide.

Because Biden's base was less pro-genocide, so no matter what Biden himself did, strategically the republicans would always be a safer bet.

There was no level of support the dems could offer that would have caused Netanyahu to support them over the republicans.

It’s a fucked up system where we get to choose between bad and worse and then we wonder why most people don’t vote and hate the government.

Newsom would tell the base to fuck off while funding ICE and war, guaranteeing republican victories in 2030 and 32. He would be a Biden 2.0.

I don't want to cut off this gangrene foot because it will be unpleasant. Let's just wait it out and see what what happens.

This was never a difficult decision and the ones that thought it was are fundamentally simple people.

Biden did a lot of great things during his time as president and it’s a testament to the failing american education system and the right-wing propaganda machine how people couldn’t see it.

Both things are not exclusive. Establishment in US are complicit in Genocide.

We don't live in a world of "should", in the real world of course it is demoralizing and affects the vote turnout.

We all know the US government will back Israel no matter what... and the voters can only punish the incumbent party for doing so.

65% of Democrats don't want to finance Israel. Two thirds of their own party, that's massive!

Voter turnout will continue to fall; D and R parties will continue to lose voters (now down to 30% registered voters each) and the Independents will continue to grow (now up to 40% of voters).

Why? Because our major parties ignore what their constituents actually want, and we can only punish one party every term.

It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Same Americans that want others to revolt against oppressive govt.

While you and I can look at this and go “Wow, that’s not logical, she’s way better than Trump”, the Democratic campaign should have had political scientists and psychologists that knew about this well-documented phenomenon. I imagine they did, and ignored it, because siding against Israel would’ve cost money.

D and R parties both need independent voters to win any election. For example, even if every D voted for a D, they would lose without independents voting for them in significant numbers. This has been a political fact for many years.

So... why did the Harris campaign target REPUBLICAN voters (instead of Ds and independents)? They wasted a lot of vital time on that ("He doesn't need to know who you voted for" etc), and they knew that they would lose if they did so.

She knew it too, Harris isn't stupid. She took a knee.

Or maybe we should demand politicians who aren't genocidal? I'm not a Russian bot, I just refuse to follow the same bullshit "vote blue no matter who" harm reduction narrative that just leads to infinitely more harm in the long run.

Or maybe I just don't like genocide.

Liberals:

I mean, the democrats ARE bad because Palestine. But the Republicans are worse, by A LOT.

Wow, you wrote all of that and didn't think for a moment, "maybe my best interests are worse for others." This is what zero material or systemic analysis does to your worldview. You think all of those people are just what, stupid? Too stupid yo know they should make decisions in your best interest regardless of how much the system that you benefit from has ruined their life? You're the big smarty pants for acknowledging that these two genocidal parties have different tactics? How fucking delusional.

Maybe extend a sliver of empathy --if you have even that much to spare --and consider how someone would feel to know they are supporting the same people that used sniper drones to pick off their little brother or their father or their mother or the fucking nice neighbour they grew up with. Maybe they don't care if it hurts them individually to exercise some sort of control over the people that killed their family. Maybe, they think they don't deserve to suffer the consequences of that system while the metropole lives in comfort.

People don't have to behave the way you want, and especially do not have to behave in a way that benefits you, understanding why is more important than pretending that there's a few people who make this fundamentally genocidal system "worse."

"Scratch a liberal, and a fascist bleeds."

If every election is a decision between the lesser of two evils and both evils become more evil over time then harm isn't actually reduced in the long run. This is why harm reduction is a failing long term electoral strategy.

The same people in this thread blaming voters for how Kamala Harris ran their campaign were the same ones insisting we had to run Biden as the incumbent, and calling you a bit or a school if you said they needed to be replaced.

We wouldn't have this outcome if the people who've made it their entire identity to blame voters had placed their frustrations with the party and demanded better, sooner, when it could have made a material difference.

Now now, "Hope [Harris] loses" does not necessarily mean "hope Trump wins".

There's a chance that the OOP is a teenager or smoothbrain who thinks that a third party could actually win a presidency in this country.

More likely is that they were a content farm or bot and probably missed a paycheck from Trump.

It's not going to be JD. Mark my words, save my comment, it's going to be Tucker Carlson. And if that happens and Dems haven't changed their tune we are absolutely fucked.

It absolutely was.

They didn't send Bill Clinton to give primary speeches wagging his finger at Palestinian Americans for nothing.

actively help Bibi?

What would you call Genocide Joe keeping the WMD shipments flowing, on time, without end, even during a manufactured famine?

This is one issue where both parties are literally the same.

The problem with Biden's administration, it was filled with dual US-Israeli citizens, who support the Likud Party. She can piss off, because the Israelis are land grabbing to the north, east and west and the MAGA fucks started a war they cannot end. Wait until the Venezuelans realize their getting shafted and revolt.

I don't think people arguing against you get newsom he fundamentally has no real beliefs and will just do things to get more power. He throws the dem base under the bus at every opportunity and is somehow more pro billionaire that the average corp dem.

If that happens and leftists are still their own biggest enemies with their pursuit of an ideologically pure candidate that doesn’t exist we’ll be fucked.

It’s basic harm reduction.

Nonsense.

Absolute nonsense, and the Palestinian Americans who voted 'undetermined' en masse during the Democratic primaries to send a message to Biden/Harris knew it too. The party made their choice between the people and an unpopular genocide. They chose genocide.

I'm getting pretty tired of voting for the 'slightly less bad' blue fascists, though.

Voting is how fascists win.

This won't be fixed by voting. It never could have been and it never will be.

And the Democrat politicians are, for the most part, doing just fine. Thriving, even. This is such a great fundraising opportunity!

I don't think most leftists are looking for an ideologically pure candidate, they're looking for someone who will actually represent the people. The Israel issue is a great example of this disconnect; amongst Dem voters 90% are against supporting Israel, and yet there's only a handful of Democrat politicians who have are agaimst sending Israel military aid. It's really not a high bar for candidates to clear, and yet establishment Dems just keep SPRINTING to the right.

Leftists arent their own enemies, their enemies are neoliberals.

I was fighting that battle right there alongside you, but yes the astroturfing was enormous. Sometimes I felt like I was the only sane person out there.

It helps to remember that there were hundreds of millions, potentially billions, of dollars going specifically to shilling for trump and putin and disparaging the democrats.

The car is already skidding on the ice. Saying "we should have taken the subway" is not useful at that point in time.

Tell that to the Lebanese.

americans when politics take up more than 1 bit:

Give up pursuing anyone of any argument these days. You're better off calling them a dickhead and blocking them. That's what I do now.

Fuck nonvoters and third party voters.

I tagged loads of accounts at the time, thinking they were just bots or plants, but a couple are still around and now I think maybe they're just well-meaning morons who couldn't quite figure out the implications...

Voting is how fascists win.

I'm just quoting the stupidest thing I've read this week for posterity.

Deep cover Republican

It's even more fucked up when people don't vote and allow "WORSE" to win. And then wonder why things are even worse.

It’s a failure of our history classes. People thought the US was better than that but they never learned we really aren’t and light genocide and pretending to feel bad about it is the best we can do.