Says the judgemental accusation throwing nut job. I'm a socialist with no love for the Democrats, only people who actually care about making things better.

Where did I ever imply in my comment that I think genocide is good? I merely explained that many people used the "both sides support genocide" as an argument for not voting or voting for Trump. Just like the weirdos who voted for Trump instead of Hillary in 2016 because actively supporting that dumpster-fire was somehow the best choice in their mind after Bernie got shafted by the Dems in the primary. Or the "both sides" centrism that's actually just conservatism in a mask.

It was a campaign to sow voter disenfranchisement into progressives. And it worked. I saw it online, and I saw it in real life. That's why they asked you who you voted for. Because actual people decided that the best course of action when forced to choose between genocide and genocide with an extra side of evil was to throw a tantrum, vote for neither and let somebody else choose which of the two would run the country, and then shame anybody who did vote for Harris for voting for genocide.

With how many Palestinians she was complicit in murdering in exchange for blood money, a sudden out like an aneurysm is more than she deserves. I'm just compassionate with my wishes for natural doom.

It's weird though. One of the accounts I tagged has just become more and more reasonable and I feel like. Idk. They certainly weren't all bad or deceptive people -- and being mean to and about them won't really help them figure it out ... OTOH fuck ppl who do stupid shit because they're too proud to accept inherent complicity in the evils of the lesser.

Correct, societal problem require group effort and you're pulling the wrong way.

You just can help instead.

Making logical points weighing up two distinct yet similar stances on genocide is only going to suppress voter turnout.

It's the same as any other US election. We always have two shit sandwich options forced by the parties. There's always some absolutely fucked position they're both going to work towards and it is just a factor of which is less bad.

There have been other genocides the US has supported for decades elsewhere that go one gave a fuck about. The issues in Gaza aren't new, they're just more visible right now because of Israeli lobbying, one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides

Liberals pretending like Democrats hate magically disappeared after the election lol

In terms of Palestine? I don’t know how you yanked that interpretation out. If it doesn’t change with either party then the only reason to vote Trump is spite, followed by a leopard eating your faces.

In terms of everything else? Yes and no. I do know we would not have:

1. Further rollback of civil liberties of women
2. a tax plan (impending) intended to trap women in marriage
3. brown shirt army stalking people and performing street executions
4. war with Iran
5. gas prices that will continue to rise long after the war with Iran is done
6. A rollback on all solar and wind programs / projects
7. rollback of consumer protections re banks, credit cards, junk fees
8. halt on internet being made an essential utility
9. a tax plan that pushes billionaires toward becoming trillionaires
10. NIOSH gutted, good luck with work safety gear manufactured from here on out
11. Elections being gutted for midterms via the US postal service
12. Speech, now, you can’t even protest Israel without being arrested or booted.
13. Impending collapse of the dollar
14. Cuba
15. All those dead fishermen in South American waters
16. Further privacy erosion in favor of Google, META, Microsoft, etc
17. Disrespect and disenfranchising military vets, like Kelly and all the randomly expelled career generals in an attempt to make the military another brown shirt brigade
18. And I’m sick of listing this crap.

Arguably, 9 & 16 would probably still happen, but in slower subtler ways. The rest? Every spite vote or lack thereof made it happen.

I don’t like our two party system. But unless you have an actual solution that fixes it at the time of an election, then the spite play does indeed hurt all.

Solutions would be nice, instead of whatever this spite spewing rage scream is.

My dad gave me $1 to seed a lemonade stand. Trump's dad gave him billions.

Our experiences are equivalent.

I'm not fully convinced the conspiracy is that deep, but also if hard evidence came out saying so, I wouldn't be surprised.

Right? Makes that other comment under this seem more valid.

This is also what immediately jumped to my mind when reading this discussion, it's the trolley problem.

they're on our side

The side of genocide, oligarchy and fascism?

It's also a testament to how bad the Biden administration failed at messaging.

Biden's BBB and infrastructure spending was some of the best legislature of our lifetimes(yes BBB was watered down, corrupted, and did not meet the moment, but the bar is in hell).

Instead of doing full-court media blitz to advertise this victory to voters, they said almost nothing. Too afraid that Biden would reveal his dementia to the public, I guess. Fewest press conferences in modern presidential history, by far.

Nothing wrong with voting 3rd party. Blame the people who don't vote/vote for the side you don't like.

That means getting candidates elected in primaries that aren’t going to put us in the same trolley problem

You can also put pressure on candidates mid-campaign to change posture.

I can tell you this, the Venn Diagram of the people itt blaming voters for the Democrats supporting a genocide in 2024, and the people who didn't want Biden to step down is basically a perfect circle. Its also the same circle which shielded Harris from any critiques on her support for genocide.

Ironically, I use Blue MAGA to refer to people like those Grads.

Then you are using it wrong.

BlueMAGA is abwd/ Biden & Harris toe suckers.

Yeah, in glorious free America, there are only ever two choices. Ain't democracy great?

You refuted the argument by providing all the evidence against it, I presume. You listed all the instances where leading Democrats supported Palestinians in the face of aggression, which are very numerous.

I mean, since that would be the way to remove any doubt

“Democrats are bad because Palestine” thing was clearly a psyop by Russian bots

By "Palestine" do you mean "supporting genocide in Palestine"?

The closest a 3rd party candidate ever got was Teddy Roosevelt, Bull Moose Party in 1912, 27% of the vote, lost to Wilson, 42%. Voting for third party ensures your vote won't count for spit, but something tells me you're a Republican and that's the whole point of your op post.

https://www.pbs.org/thinktank/thirdchoice/timeline.html

IMO it doesn't matter if you do a 3rd party protest vote if you're not in a swing state. The system is fundamentally broken by design

There seems to be a ton of finger pointing from liberals (mostly outside of leemy). Trump won on promises to gullible fools on literally making cost of living cheaper (this includes fascist and non fascist talking points)

The dems lost on not conveying their solutions to cost of living well and of course not taking a stand against the faction of war and genocide that many of them are actively working for or with.

A lot of establishment dems are just mad it's not their brand of authoritarianism

Harris saw a 6M vote undercount relative to Biden. You can argue all the reasons why, but you can't deny Democrats would have won if they'd been as popular in 2020 as they were in 2024.

It's bizarre to see people insist this collapse in support has nothing to do with the policies of the party people stopped liking.

In the same vein, there's a real hard November coming for the GOP this year. Their incompetence is going to cost them.

Right? Having to deal with all those bots showing all the times the democrats supported Israel's actions and refused to support Palestinians and refused to call or support any sanctions or supported BDS

Must have been exhausting particularly since you had zero evidence to the contrary. I can see how that would be an uphill battle when facts aren't on your side.

You do realize your tactic here was literally the same tactic as when MAGAs call something "fake news," right? Uncannily identical.

Vote For The Lesser Fascist next time, dipshit.

this garbage again. now it’s voter fault that they forced a superpac shill who told the voters to stfu while bombing kids in refugee camp and let megacorps fck working class. this time they didn’t even bothered with a sham primary like hillary or biden.

all mainstream dems other than aoc, warren and bernie are still spitting on its base. has harris or dem leadership done one thing to change their stance or support its people after election ?

keep voting lesser evil and you will keep getting two faced snakes with better propaganda.

Normally i wouldnt mind this and would agree with you. But not on the only candidate we've ever had that has begged to be made king and actively tried to violently over throw the system

If 10% of the vote goes to x then there's motivation to court voters from x.

If you only vote 2 parties then you're only courting voters from the other party.

Which is a fucking stupid line for people to draw when the opposition was advertising that they would actively do more in a worse way.

The problem then being the electorate. The same group so many here want to absolve. You may not care about politics and want to 'check out' but it still cares about you and will still effect you even if you try to ignore it. In that vein elections will still happen and people you agree/disagree with will still be given power over you and your life. No matter how low the turn out a decision will be made with or without your input. Better to do what you can to give that input and make it the most useful it can be, before you get no input at all

I’m not fully convinced the conspiracy is that deep, but also if hard evidence came out saying so, I wouldn’t be surprised.

You don't have to believe my word, but answer this question. You are a Democratic veteran. You KNOW for a FACT that you need Democratic and Independent voters to win. Simple mathematics demands that you do so to win.

Why, oh why, would you pursue the Republican vote? They've never done this before in a Presidential election. It can't work. It's never worked before, anyway.

This was discussed openly during the campaign, tons of Republican outreach and advertising with the Harris run... why?

I cannot think of any other reason, I would actually feel a lot better if there was a logical reason, somebody help my troubled mind

Hey guess what. The genocide got even worse under harris' opposition. How did that work out for all the genocide joe non-voters. How have palestinians benefitted under those protest votes/non-votes. Not to mention all the dead iranians that wouldnt be had harris won

That's true.

It always does, because both ruling parties exist in service to Israel. And therefore, they have no impetus to do anything but escalate.

Had she been elected we'd be in exactly the same position.

Well the reality isn't much better. They put a candidate in that couldn't beat anyone in the primaries, but was added because Biden wanted to run again.

The fact that you're saying this without a hint of irony is astounding

I've given up on changing republicans. We should either change the dems, or burn our entire government to the ground without much delay. Those are our options. Changing Dems means setting boundaries and sticking to them. And boundaries cant be only around during the primary. Dems either adhere to universal human rights for all or they lose in every way I can make them lose, thats my deal with them, they can take it or leave it-- I dont care if they -- or you like it. Its not asking for much. and I'm willing to burn the democratic party and our stupid governmental system to the ground to get it, just like the zionists and their creatures are willing to do.

You want to wave a stack of lesser causes and pretend they compare at all to genocide? stuff like:

halt on internet being made an essential utility

oh my. You weigh that list of comparatively trivial bullshit against genocide of hundreds of thousands of innocents, journalist, and doctors huh. Well I think they dont even begin to compare, and it doesnt speak well of you that you'd even try to compare them. Kind of disgusting and self centered. Oh no, your gas is more expensive? You poor dear. This is "killing" you, I can tell. You're basically being "genocided" by high gas prices and the internet not being considered a public utility arent you. Why cant you just stand up firmly for universal human dignity and human rights? Would that be so bad?

Uhh trans people lost support last election. Or were you not paying attention to all the anti-trans legislation coming out.

A war with iran. Because trump won we have now killed dozens/hundreds of iranians. People that would not have died if harris had won. So again what would biden/harris have done that would have amounted to starting a war. Are you stupid...

This is a russian/eastern perspective. Theater has no effect on real life politics does. They are NOT the same. If you act like they are you are part of the problem.

That this has over 700 upvotes on lemmy.world says everything you need to know about lemmy.world.

You see it turns out you can have more than 1 thought in your head at once. Trump can be a fascist who materially supports a genocide and the democrat party can also be materially supporting a genocide. Look at how little they've done to stop the Iran war. Why do you think that is?

You wanna known what a progressive point is now. Dont kill trans people. That is where we are right now. That is the line of progressivism now that trunp won. Congratulations overton window shifted

So instead we hit the gas or do nothing...really?

I don’t think he was actually voted in. Literally stated “I already have the votes” before the election.

I think they sorta reasonably might have thought kamala would be another Bernie, who was pulling republicans from trump during the primaries against Hilary. They thought kamala had that sort of appeal.

It's not sound logic, but I think someone in politics who doesn't understand what drew people to Bernie could see the parallels and conclude if they focus on it, they can draw those Republicans in.

Fuck off and goodbye.

👋

The Republicans are a third party.

Have you seen the polls on the popularity of the Democratic Party?

Exactly. And frankly, any person who blames the voters rather than the politician is a deplorable. You have to be the biggest dumbass on Earth to think that trying to shame voters is a good electoral strategy. Kamala lost because she was a terrible candidate. Her loss is her fault. Not the voters.

That's because it was a push by foreign propaganda campaigns to influence the US election. Israel and Russia both had a vested interest in having Trump win.