So who did you vote for, the Democratic-Republicans or the Whigs? Since that can never happen in a FPTP system, it stands to reason that we must still have the two parties we started with. Was there some time period in history where the US didn't have FPTP where all the party shuffling happened?

I agree - voting Democrat in the general election is the choice with the least horrible consequences. But it's not enough.

You're here every hour of the day calling everyone with a different opinion than yours "BlueMAGA" or "ghoul" or "genocide denier" while simultaneously promoting political violence and hatred yourself. You're here blaming anyone with a remotely different viewpoint for "virtue signalling" when literally every one one of your last 100 posts is just that - moral grandstanding using the same old tired language and vitriol as the people you're supposedly opposing.

Get a grip. You're nothing but a hypocrite yourself, spewing venom all day everyday while pretending to give a f**k. Pathetic.

hitlers rose to power because those morons couldn’t stop voting lesser evil instead uniting for wide reforms to stop wealth hoarding by german royalty and oligarchs. german politicians just like biden did fuck all for average people amid record inflation and unemployment. why the fck he didn’t release epstien files or arrested the maga leaders on insurrection charges for four years ?

maga nazis are insignificant percentage. they will be back to basement like rats if someone like aoc and mamdani are elected. but scum like peolosi and mossad agent schumer are never going to let that happen.
why change when sheeps will elect them every other term on “more gentle and slow than red butchers”

i am not voting scum like newsom even if he wins primary. and every decent voter should make that known instead of giving in to their extortion. i will happily volunteer for someone like aoc like i did during nyc elections for mamdani. but i am not voting for those superpac pet snakes anymore.

People want to believe the Republicans are massively worse. They aren't. It's a 10-15% thing at most. Most mainstream Democrats still support Israel, and they support the war on Iran. Even JFK ordered terrorist attacks on Cuban civillians. Dems are just fascists wrapped in a rainbow flag. The base need to reckon with this and actually force the party to address it rather than just acting like it's not happening. Voting blue no matter who on the basis of harm reduction just enables it.

did i say anything about not voting in primaries ?
harris didn’t even get 1000 votes in 2020 primaries and was made vp in place of warren who came third with 3 million votes. what primaries were there in 24 ? its interesting that close to midterms we are again seeing this “lesser evil” jargon to sell garbage candidates backed by aipac and dnc elites

i am voting all the primaries, but i am not voting for some trash like newsom even if he wins in 28 primaries by 99%.
instead of palantir and oracle like trump, he will be killing working class for all the ai parasites like openai and meta.

did I say anything…

You said sham, which indicates by proxy a lack of desire to participate.

harris didn’t get…was made vp…

Yes, I said shitlibs won’t change. Primaries have nothing to do with who gets picked as VP. They’re there for you to put who you want in as runner. Works well enough for the other team.

What primaries…

None, shitlibs.

Its interesting…

Really? Why are you surprised? Fun fact: this has been going on for a long, long time. Why? Because the people don’t vote in numbers, not do they understand their system well enough to get it to work for them.

You know who does? Yep, Republicans. They do this time in time out and religiously. They don’t piss and moan about this candidate or that; they vote the nutbag in at primary time then follow up. They do, not whinge.

I am voting all the primaries

Good, if you and enough others do it, you should get your candidate.

but I am not voting for some trash line Newsom

Who is better than Trump, if he’s the candidate and you don’t nothing changes and your system allows no other approach. You will be letting your country down again.

instead of palantir and trump

If you think Newsom is as bad as Trump you’re outright stupid.

Case in point. Thank you.

“this time sham” meant the 24 primaries where the democratic candidate was selected for us based on the most obedient pet for superpacs and israel.

as for other points, i dont give a shit what republicans do. if a candidate doesn’t meet the minimum standards, no one should be voting for them. we will never get a candidate like obama or sanders ever again if we keep voting snakes painted in fake blue color. and sooner or later they will as bad as red snakes. or worse

dnc elites only stopped whining about mamdani during the primaries when it became clear its helping him as most nyc voters hated them as much as republicans

I think you need to take a look at what I said again. I didn't vote against Kamala. I actively campaigned for her because I'm not a fucking moron, and I understand the principle of "Don't let Hitler II become the president... Again."

Take that statement that Kamala made and pretend that France said that about the US and Iran right now.

"...it is time to get this deal done. Let's get the deal done. So we can get a ceasefire to end the war. Let's bring the hostages home. And let's provide much needed relief to the Iranian people."

That doesn't really sound like an Anti-USA statement to me, and what Kamala said didn't sound like she was standing up to Israel. Bibi just pitched a fit because he's a whiny little bitch boi who wanted the US to actively and publicly espouse support for his ongoing genocide.

the 24 primaries

Didn’t happen because the incumbent was originally running. That only changed because it became apparent he’d get flogged.

The ones who did have primaries were Republicans, though they all pulled out when…it became apparent who they’d all vote for. Hmm.

I don’t give a shit what Republicans do

I would. They school you pretty much every election, both the centrists and the left.

Sanders

Was an independent and never getting their support.

Obama

Is a centrist and not that much better than Harris so I’m not sure where you’re headed with that. That said, Obama was a very good president. I have no doubt Harris would have at least been better than Trump and here’s the kicker…there’d certainly be no war and there’d be a peace process underway in Gaza.

sooner or later they will be as bad as red snakes

I hear this a lot but have yet to see it come to fruition, as tepid as they are

DNC elites

Never stopped whining about Mamdani until the last gasp, so much so, one ran against him. They don’t change and you will not drag them to it. You’ll kill your country trying though.

there’d certainly be no war and there’d be a peace process underway in Gaza.

good one, boy do i have bridges to sell you. and you were calling me stupid.

go through this Kamala Harris says Iran is ‘greatest adversary’ of US Democratic presidential candidate says preventing Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon is one of her top priorities.

ofcourse there won’t be war. it will be a special military op with a much better propaganda and likely dragging other nato countries in it too.

iran war was already decided by people who control both party leaders even before the election. only way it wouldn’t have happened was a 3rd party winning which can’t happen (or warren or bernie wining 2020)

do you know both harris and pelosi worked hard to defund a california state initiative to help independent candidates get basic financial support on getting enough votes ?

go through her political carrier, she had always been a out of touch hack who would have easily joined trump like tulsi if it meant better prospects. she had taken millions from aipac and married to a rich ultra zionist lawyer. i have no doubt she will be negotiating relelection campaign in return of turning tehran to gaza and murdering iranian kids by labelling them hamas

Why, of course there is! I certainly went from an early stance of "Israel is just defending itself from a terrorist attack" to "Alright, what they are doing to the civilian population in Gaza is clearly genocidal." Then I went on to include what the "settlers" are doing in the West Bank with tacit sanction of the government under the same genocidal umbrella.

If the thesis is, "There was no attempt by Russian bots to sway public support of Palestinian civilians against the Democrats," you'd have a hard time convincing me.

If the thesis is, "GenZ was well-informed about the plight of Palestinians before TikTok told them to look into it and shaped their opinion," also unlikely to convince me.

If you are talking about Harris, then Biden did even worse: he pulled out way too late, refused to give her a chance to make a case (she probably preferred it that way, too), and then forbade her from straying even an inch from his party line.

Paid actor. Or edgy kid trying for internet points. Watch them ratchet it up around the midterms. Also seems to have only one retort. Vocabulary challenged.

I mean, she's right. Dems are supposed to represent the ideological opposite of Cons, both domestically and internationally.

Of course, US foreign policy has always been uni-party, so there was never a chance that the Dems were going to concede. Despairingly so.

I voted for Kamala, but she didn't everything in her power to destroy the momentum she got after Biden dropped out.

USians have been OK with crimes against humanity for decades. If Palestine had anything to do with Trump winning, then that's due to propaganda, not them organically giving a fuck.

But why are we still pretending Trump even won when his senile rotting brain admitted they rigged the elections?

she is right, anyone voting either democrat or republican is complicit in genocide

Anyone paying any US taxes is funding genocide, literally every person in this country is complicit.

Since when? I've literally never heard it used in that context except for your claim here that it means...corpo Dems I guess? Anything to the right of your views I could understand - that's how Grad works and why they call socialists fascists or conservatives. For not being communist enough. Hence why I refer to them as Blue MAGA. That, and the fact that they outright harassed Blahaj on our own server to the point of defederating to protect the users. Again, because we weren't Communist enough for them. They see little difference between most forms of leftists and conservatives.

And what the fuck does any of that have to do with being opposed to genocide? That's just common sense. The only people that I've seen who aren't opposed to the genocide in Gaza are racists and politicians/companies who are gargling Israeli nuts for $20.

I'm not even a Democrat. Milquetoast centrists and moderate conservatives slurping corporate dollars are not for me. I vote Dem for the few actual leftists among the party and the rare independents who are forced to work with them and because the only other choice is hatred and racism except when MAGA isn't just outright stealing from the people.

You can fuck all the way off.

Jesus christ you're disingenuous as fuck. That's clearly not what I said

Ross Perot got over 10% I think. Look how much that changed 🙄

The fall of democracies is filled with infighting between the people who oppose the regime.

Americans are idiots and colonial terrorists so this is extra bad. They got played so obviously by the people they are now helping by shitting on the opposition

Anyone also not going out to protest and just sitting around ignoring it is also complicit

A quick web query says close to 90 million people didn't vote in the last election. Trump won by ~2.3 million. Are you sure it was the 2.9 million that voted 3rd party (nearly half of which voted Libertarian split between RJK jr and his successor)?

Don't you think that 90 million might have played a bigger role?

Don't you think the 77 million that voted Trump might have had more to do with it?

In how many consecutive elections?

And the Democrats couldn't even do a symbolic vote? Or force everyone to a war resolution vote so that they're on record and politically toxic when this whole thing collapses?

👨‍🚀🔫👨‍🚀

I had something more like "try to approach liberals with kindness and understanding" in mind.

Because the current approach doesn't seem to be working.

Ah, the old false narrative of binary choice. Fun fact: You can vote for anyone, even if they're not displayed (via write-in). Yeah, statistically anyone other than the anointed two will probably lose, unless enough people make the same decision, which actually does exist as a possibility because the two parties did not write the rules of reality, they just influenced things in their favor.

But of course, the Democrats can never fail, they can only be failed. Republicans fear their constituents, democrats hate theirs.

Putin trolls are fueling dissent on both sides to create polarization in the West.

Woah, making it feel like 2016 in here.

Not an argument, they do nothing when they control the government too

That may be the least Lemmy thing I have read on this site. No Lemming worth their salt directs any traffic toward Reddit.

I hat hate MAGA as much as anyone who has more than one braincell, but no; the Dems couldn't force water through a straw.

The number of combinations of choices in social and human affairs is pretty much infinite so politics in a real Democracy could theoretically be infinite-sided (though only if there were no "representatives" of citizens and people directly voted on everything - i.e. direct Democracy)

Because the US isn't really a proper Democracy (more like an attempt at one), the vote itself in American has only 2 real options, but there are other ways to expand the number of choices because the two main parties in America are umbrellas for ranges of possibilities and they do have somewhat democratic (rigged, but still with more choices than the actual vote) internal selection systems in the form of Primaries.

If one properly analyses it, it turns out the presidential selection system in the US is really a multi-stage affair in which two of the stages - the Primaries and the actual vote - are open to the public (though there is quite a lot of selecting going on behind closed doors even before the Primaries).

So if people participate in both Primaries and the actual vote, they de facto have more choices than 2.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that this is a cyclical process and the outcomes in one cycle - i.e. who won and by how much - influence what happens in the next cycle so the vote itself defines not just what happens in one election, but also which choices will be made available - i.e. which candidates will be fielded - in the next.

All this means that if one actually cares and makes an effort, there's more "Democracy" to be had than it might seem at first sight and the vote itself has more influence than just that immediate choice, so anybody claiming that "you have no choice but to vote lesser evil" either has a simplistic view of things or are purposefully trying to deceive others.

This is without going down into the whole local politics and civil society participation, which in the US is almost as livelly Democratic as in Europe.

That's a big assumption to be made about me, especially when I said

Voting Democrat in the general election is the choice with (edited in: the) least horrible consequences

(that is, one should vote for Democrats).

I believe voting is the bare minimum of political effort that should be expected of every citizen of an electoral country, and that tactical voting is sometimes necessary.

And I understand your disappointment with the American left. My comment is addressed to them as much as it is to you.

I love how you call others shitlibs. Yikes, you're like king of the liberals. Zero understanding of politics, just parroting terms you don't understand.

It's not surprising that talk about the election was greatly reduced after the election ended.

Again YOUR ignorance has no inherent meaning. You deciding waffles means pancakes does make it so.

You are actually blueMAGA, and the terms been around since at 2015. Go do any amount of research into the term instead of... Whatever this flame out of yours is.

And I can tell right now you are a blueMaggot. It's all over your sentiment.

So hop into the googler, type in blue Maga into know your meme, and begin learning about yourself.

@Bytemeister "... the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza ends and the Palestinian people can exercise their right to freedom, dignity and self determination," she said.

The United States was not a democracy before Trump, or Joe Biden wouldn't have continued providing wildly-unpopular military aid to the genocidal Zionazi regime.

We're a democracy only where our elites allow us to be.

And it's also the inevitable conclusion of "lesser evil" politics.

Careful, you'll anger the hordes of shitlibs

Yes, so your degree of complicity should be minimized to the greatest extent possible for your individual circumstances. Pretty universally-accessible ways to achieve this can include not voting for blue or red genocidaires, boycotting all Israeli products, and demanding an end to all aid to Israel.

The solution to "life in America means you're complicit in genocide" is not to throw up your hands and say "well fuck it, there's no point in avoiding contributing to it further then!" Much like the solution to "no ethical consumption under capitalism" isn't to say "well fuck it, might as well buy the biggest truck I can find and eat all my food with single-use plastic".

• doesn't join the groups
• claims to understand their ideology (or lack thereof)

Try getting involved with real world leftist groups instead of just the online ones. And not PSL either lol. The goal is building class consciousness and solidarity, and that's a slow fuckin slog in America, so it doesn't look exciting or like things aren't being handled with the appropriate urgency but it needs to be done. We cannot do anything if we aren't organized, we cannot organize if we are all being exploited every moment of our lives.

Also Green Party candidates won 57% of the local elections they ran in (in 2024 or 2025, not sure which) if you're more the electoral politics type (which imo is far less potent than the community organizing type, though there's no reason you can't do both).

Hasan Piker is a grifter, I'm with you there though.

What the hell has the left actually done in this country to change anything, to stop fascism, to defeat capitalisim?

Well, the 5-day workweek and the end of child labor, to start.

they are :>>