By that logic anyone not voting would be complicit too. It's like it's all of our faults but not really our fault at all. Hmmm. If only there were actual people making these decisions that we could identify and punish

Your paycheck from Putin or George Soros or whatever is in the mail, soldier.

I wish...

Lol, you mean those things that I literally mention in my post? Yeah like I said they did accomplish that, 100 years ago. Back when leftists actually, you know, voted.
What has the left actually accomplished, say in the last 30 years?

Elevating Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately, your party cannot tolerate leftwing populism because it threatens the capitalist oligarchs (or "campaign donors", I think is their preferred language) who own them, so they rigged their primaries to guarantee his loss, coalesced around an already-half-senile racist creep, and paved the way for the rise of rightwing populism as an inevitable response to the material reality that neoliberalism has failed the population.

Aside from that, the left has coordinated a very organized response to ICE terror across the country while mainstream liberals show up once every few months for No Kings protests which have no specific demands except to request Trump stop being something he already is not. They have also contributed significantly towards changing public opinion on the genocidal Zionazi regime, to the point where more Americans now sympathize with Palestinians than their occupiers, while your party continued funding the occupation and genocide and praised the police who beat nonviolent student protestors working towards that end.

The legalization of cannabis can't be solely attributed to leftists, but they certainly contributed to that accomplishment as well. And the decriminalization of psychedelics even moreso.

Now let's flip the question on you. What have the Democrats actually accomplished in the last 30 years?

Lol, sure dude. Nice try redirecting.

The election suddenly wasn’t stolen because trump won.

The gas prices went up after trump won.

Egg prices were just as expensive after trump won.

The point isn’t the election ending, the point is not caring about the manufactured problems.

But you knew that, didn’t you. Of course you did.

You literally cannot imagine someone who isn’t you.

Answer my question or GTFO. What have you done to stop genocide? You're so passionate about this that you refuse to vote against facisim, so tell me what you're doing? Standing around, holding a sign? Supergluing your hands to the street and holding up traffic so people are late to work? Maybe you followed a bunch of ICE agents around and blew whistles or banged on pots and pans or some shit? Yeah that'll show'em, am I rite?

Yeah? Well the Republicans seem pretty fucking effectual. Maybe I should join them, if effectual is all that matters. I certainly wouldn’t join your completely useless political project.

Yeah thats why I said we should vote against them, try to keep up. But since you're too moral and pure to sully yourself with the indignity of engaging in the one actual activity that would've keep these assholes from taking power and your inaction has allowed the worst possible scenario to take place, please tell me what you're actually doing to stop genocide and defeat fascisim. What the hell are you and your movement doing to fix this?

I mean, I vote and engage in the political process, but that's just me.

Fucking cringe.

For someone who claims to not give a shit about my morals you sure do seem to expend a lot of energy trying to police what I think.

Democrats are great at blaming everything but themselves for losing. I remember people like you on here claiming that the protests about the genocide in Palestine stopped once Trump won but that's plain bullshit, and there were protests against the genocide in Palestine specifically calling out Trump in my city even after the election.

Now you're trying to paint me as a Trump supporter for pointing out that discussions about elections tend to reduce outside of elections. What happened to the "rational liberal" that democrats pride themselves on being? Don't you have some lesser evil acts to carry out? Maybe some people to tie to train tracks?

Next time democrats should try pushing for policies that people want instead of relying on "vote blue no matter who" which clearly didn't work, even though I voted for Harris. Guess I didn't vote hard enough, huh?

Ah yes, please forgive this fascist genocide supporting worm of their sins of not hearing an internet meme! I shall present my backside for proper flagellation forthwith!

I'm getting mixed signals here. Blue MAGA means Biden-Harris supporting pro-Israel and their genocide Dems, but now it means leftists who believe that the Dems can be used as a stopgap to elect actual leftists who care for the people like Mamdani?

And this isn't a flame out, you're the one who accused me of being a pro-genocide conservative. I'm merely over here being confused about what the hell you're going on about and explaining why I use the term for Grad users specifically.

I would like to see the online members bridge the connection to real world activism with real call to actions. I do plan to get involved in real world organizations again as I've been involved in the past tangentially. That being said, without some type of coalition building and community activism it becomes stale. I'm all about that class consciousness, but there is the difference between "being" and "doing", and the reality is only the latter matters.

I'd take the green party more seriously if they ditched Jill Stein. 159 local seats is not nothing, but if you take into account the entire life span of the green party, it's not great either. We need to make real world strides, and I don't think that's accomplished by deriding liberals or democrats non-stop. It just won't work.

I

There you go, changing the subject. Butwhatabout…. Sosdd, never answering the rebuttal and just making up new things to talk about.

Whatever man. Pound sand.

Nobody argues about that. People are pointing out the choices US-American voters have

• genocide and police violence
• the above, but also probable descent into fascism, forcing women to give birth, sharp increase in violence against non-white people, trans people, etc.
• a revolution no third option, the ground work hasn't been laid

So arguing against voting for the Democrat party in 2016, 2020, and 2024 did nothing but help fascism.

Seems you can't answer a simple question without feeling persecuted.

Blocked

How are all those iranians doing now after those protest votes. Their deaths totally worth the clear conscious of not voting

Blocked.

No im not. Those iranians wouldnt have died if trump was not in office. Everyone who didnt do all they could to stop his assention is responsible for their deaths. They would not have died if kamela had won. The palestiniams would have died either way so they do not change the equation at all.

Yes they lie but that is not theater. That is a lie. Do you not know the difference? This kind of mindset is exactly what im talking about.

No i say this to anyone trying to downplay the severity of political involvement. The fact you dont understand this is exactly why

Who started a war with iran? Who went into another country and kidnapped their leader? Who is blowing up random boats in the carribean? Who bowed to north korean generals?

No biden os nowhere close to trump. Youre being willfully ignorant on this

Really wed be at war with iran? Wed be blowing up random boats and killing people in the caribean? We would have snatched up other country leaders? We would have completely destroyed world trade by tarrifing every other country on the planet? We would have all but destroyed the NATO aliance by starting said iran war and also threatening to violently invade greenland and canada? Do you need a prescription for this severity of blindness

I think they sorta reasonably might have thought kamala would be another Bernie

Reasonably? For what reason?

Bernie didn't win the Presidential election. He couldn't even win the nomination.

"Let's try something that has failed, instead of doing something fundamental that we have repeatedly used before to win elections."

"Let's try this idea! It's just Trump, who has won before. No worries"

Come on, she is not that stupid.

They are not that stupid.

Side note: They collected over a billion dollars for this failure (that we know of). New record!

I was trying tp get people to vote for the person that wasnt going to start more wars in the middle east. Or kill random people in the carribean. Or put all trans people on a watch list. Or rail against any form of electrification. No the only ones who accomplished their hoals were those trying to get americans to think that the above candidate was the same as harris. You know realy morons.

Really wed be at war with iran? Wed be blowing up random boats and killing people in the caribean? We would have snatched up other country leaders?

Israel would be, and therefore, we would be too. Yes.

We would have completely desgrpyed world trade by tarrifing every other country on the planet?

You'll recall that Biden actually kept many of the Donald tariffs, so yes, it's likely we'd be okay with disrupting trade to some extent.

We wpuld have all but destroyed the NATO aliance by starting said iran war and also threatening to violently invade greenland and canada?

Not Canada or Greenland specifically, but considering Obama was at war in 7 countries when he left office (that we're able to confirm, at least. Could be many more.), and Biden was bombing several countries as well as aiding and abetting genocide and a manufactured famine in Palestine, it's hard to argue that we wouldn't be doing stupid shit militarily regardless. That's especially true given the bloodlust of Israel and the Democrats' insistence that we continue to hand them WMD's on demand.

Do you need a prescription for this severoty of blindness

Thank you for the suggestion. You need to stop pretending that the Democrats are meaningfully different from Republicans, especially considering the Democrats also ran a candidate with publicly-evident brain damage.

Yeah so I asked "What has the left actually accomplished" not "what ineffectual actions are they doing to stop fascim after it's already taken power."

The legalization of cannabis can’t be solely attributed to leftists, but they certainly contributed to that accomplishment as well. And the decriminalization of psychedelics even moreso.

So those things were decriminalized by passing laws, correct? Kinda sounds like something you have to be politically active and vote for. Or do laws magically just pass when you stand around in the street with a cardboard sign?

Now let’s flip the question on you. What have the Democrats actually accomplished in the last 30 years?

Well, there was that thing you tried to take credit for, which is legalizing marijuana. We can also add legalizing gay marriage on top of that, those are two things that come to mind.

If the thesis is, “There was no attempt by Russian bots to sway public support of Palestinian civilians against the Democrats,” you’d have a hard time convincing me.

There are bots out there trying to convince everyone of everything. That in no way means that you get to dismiss everyone voicing a particular viewpoint as being a bot.

If the thesis is, “GenZ was well-informed about the plight of Palestinians before TikTok told them to look into it and shaped their opinion,” also unlikely to convince me.

And you believe that the thing that changed was bots and not video evidence of genocide?

Flail and cry you fucking want, but the term blueMAGA was made to describe you, specifically.

And the world doesn't blame people for whom a genocide was a bridge to far in 2024. They blame Democrats who couldn't do the right thing and they blame apologists like you who gave Democrats the runway to keep being a party of genocide.

You are why 2024 went to the fascists and everyone knows it, except needle brain blue maggots.

Are you counting all the non voters as votes for the dems? That's absurd.

And even then you can still say if you live in a non swing blue state you should protest vote because it's fucking genocide and endless proxy wars. The system is fundamentally broken. Leadership has long betrayed the people.

I understand voting for the option that's only 80% evil instead of 95% evil but if you live in an area that can make a protest vote towards the 80% evil you should still consider it

Your only point is that democrats aren't at fault. That you think people protesting the genocide of Palestinians is a "manufactured problem" speaks volumes. Biden was bypassing congress to supply weapons for that genocide, but you somehow still think it's not the fault of democrats or that it's not a problem at all.

By offering 2 truly ridiculously poor candidates as alternatives.

Yeah ask ‘em for solutions. See what you get.

Uh huh.

Imagine that. Shitting on everything and leaving. How leftist.

Well?

Are you a US voter, yes or no. It’s a simple question.

When you failed to do the one thing to defeat literal demented fascism.

That’s when. You want to tell us you voted for Harris now? No? Hmm.

What’s “Cash App”?

Right, which is the reason everyone gives when they hold forth at great length on the nature and vicissitudes of US politics.

Many are happy to be confused with a US voter. For reasons.

I made no such point. I called the trump supporters liars, trolls, and hypocrites.

Nice try again.

If the Green Party has a future, I think it's Butch Ware. I'm a much bigger fan of his though I really have no problems with Jill Stein either.

ok Blue MAGA, you do your thing

This question isn't the gotcha you think it is.

So that’s a no then.

I had something more like “try to approach liberals with kindness and understanding” in mind.

You expect no behavior change from the genocide-and-nothing-else wing.

The left tried to warn you. As you are doing right now, you deliberately interpreted it as advocacy for trump so you wouldn't have to alter your unconditional support for genocide and nothing else.

The palestiniams would have died either way

Good for you. You got all you ever wanted.

The fact you dont understand this is exactly why

I love how centrists imagine that people don't understand them when they're just not buying their flimsy justification for genocide support.

If centrists wanted anything more than they wanted genocide, they would actually have fought for something harder than they did for genocide. I don't think any of you ever will.

No the only ones who accomplished their hoals were those trying to get americans to think that the above candidate was the same as harris.

She was the same as Biden. She said she was gonna govern like Biden, and no one was happy with biden except centrists. Centrists loved how he broke every last one of the promises he made to the left in 2020. You loved it even more when he broke the law to sell weapons for genocide.

Progressives were swindled and then told that no change for the better would be coming for at least 8 years, under a candidate that was appointed without a primary by the guy who lied to us and supported genocide.

Maybe bring more cheneys next time. Maybe treat more constituents with contempt. Maybe if you look enough like temu fascism, you'll pick up those imaginary moderate republicans you use as a justification for moving so far to the right that genocide support wasn't negotiable.

My knowledge is useless if I am convicted of a felony?

And you believe that the thing that changed was bots and not video evidence of genocide?

I do not. GenZ reacted with horror to something horrific. The issue is that they didn't react with the same horror to horrific stories from before 2022 - settlers murdering Palestinian kids, soldiers walking away from torturing Palestinians, administrative detention that ran into the decades without any form of process.

Note that I do not blame GenZ for this. American media has been silent on these things, and is largely silent to this day. What TikTok brought (and it scared Washington insiders) is a view of the world as it is, not as it is viewed through the interests of the USA.

But, while I am very grateful that people started seeing the world outside of the propaganda machinery, I also realize that the recent exposure to the new information made the same people vulnerable to more propaganda and disinformation.

The includes the idea that Democrats were worse or comparable to Republicans when it comes to the treatment of Muslims. Which is the point of the post.

Trump's very first act in office in 2017 was to pass the Muslim ban executive order. He didn't care it was blatantly unconstitutional: it signaled a set of priorities, and discrimination and hatred towards Muslims of all kinds was the core of it.

I voted for Kamala, but she didn’t everything in her power to destroy the momentum she got after Biden dropped out.

When she said she wouldn't do anything differently from Biden, she told everyone who was hoping for a departure from an already untenable status quo that it wasn't going to happen under Harris after all. None of what we were promised in 2020 was going to happen under Harris either, and the genocide support we got instead would continue unabated.

Centrists still can't imagine why this wasn't a winning message.