I am trying to help people understand WHY the Democrats lost

Look, I fucking led the fight trying to explain this to shitlibs and blue MAGA in '22, continuing into '23, and relentlessly in '24. And as I know I'm speaking to someone on the right side of that fight, I just want to point out to you to notice how they refuse to understand and that not understanding or being willing to understand how elections work, how electoralism works, how voting works, how voters work: their belligerence; their refusal to understand or live in a grounded reality; its a core function of their argument.

At this point, there really is not excuse for them not understanding and acknowledging the damage they caused to democracy in 2023/24. And the refusal to understand and acknowledge effectively is the argument they are making. They don't care that they're wrong, they only care that they their grievances and sensibilities stay centered as the highest priority of the democratic party. My point here, is that we need to shift our understanding of what liberals/ shitlibs/ blue MAGA is trying to accomplish when they insist that its voters that need to adapt to bad policy and undetectable candidates. As progressives/ socialists, we think were running in a political contest. This cohort understand something we don't: they understand that they are in competition for cultural control of the entire suite of demographics living in the tent of the Democratic party.

And I think its appropriate to use the pejorative Blue MAGA here, for the same reasons we use MAGA to describe the same phenomenon on the right. Characters like SMCF aren't making a political argument or waging a battle to get their suite or policies centered in the Democratic party: they're waging a battle to maintain their white/ NPR liberal cultural identity as the central focus of the Democratic party. And this why the pejorative is the correct word to use here: MAGA also started as a project to maintain the centralism of white identity politics. Blue MAGA is culture wars, but internal to the Democratic party. Their arguments aren't political, they're cultural. Their fight is to keep their sensibilities and identity the central focus and project of the Democratic party. And these are the people who are also least impacted by the US's turn to fascism. They are the protected class of fascism, and they are fighting to keep it that way.

So when you hear ABWD/ Shitlib/ Blue MAGA hog sounds coming from a chat thread, I think its useful to understand why they are doing what they are doing. And yes, Blue MAGA is the right word to use here, because, like MAGA, their fight isn't truly political, its cultural. And I think if we shift our understanding into these terms, it helps explain behaviors that otherwise wouldn't make sense, like for example, insisting on running the worst possible candidates in the "most important elections of our lifetime".

I would argue some of the Democrats would fall under that description, but the majority, especially leadership, falls into the purview of neo-liberalism.

Neoliberalism is what republicans cosplay as especially when in opposition.

Even democratic leaders aren’t trying to strip regulations and shrink government.

Yeah his name is Benjamin

Cool. Tell me how that is working out. Ignoring reality will not get you out sess pit without long term planning and hard work. Knee jerk reactions will only send you deeper.

You think everyone is a fascist though.

In the history of the USA Harris got the third most votes ever.

It goes:

Biden with 81,283,501
Trump (2024) with 77,302,580
Harris with 75,017,613
Trump (2020) with 74,223,975

Tell me how that is working out.

Poorly so far. Congratulations.

No, and I've been incredibly, incredibly clear about this for literally years. And no matter how much you try and pretend its something else, you yourself continuously do the work to out your true self.

You were never interested in stopping fascism, because you yourself support the same policies as the literal fascists. You only find issue with the window dressings, with the trappings and stylistic aspects of how the fascism is done. But so long as it meets your cultural sensibilities, its fine with you.

I voted Harris who is not a fascist so your argument breaks down there.

Dude can only treat people as "LiBeRaLs" when they do not "agree".

I'm not american. Not your LIbErAl either lol.

But please continue insulting people left right center, that's the winning strategy champ!

Oh yeah, blocked.

That explains a fair bit... Thanks! And good luck.

How you fucking voted is irrelevant.

You advocated relentless to keep Harris where she was policy wise when EVERYBODY KNEW she would lose the election sticking with those polices. You objectively advocated that the Democrats stick to the path which everyone with eyes knew would lead to them losing the election.

👏 You 👏 advocated 👏 for 👏 fascism 👏.

👏 You 👏 are 👏 supporter 👏 of 👏 fascism 👏.

Not your LIbErAl either lol.

followed by

please continue insulting people left right center,

Yeah, sure, ok buddy.

I relentlessly kept Harris where she was policy wise for all three months of her campaign?

We've done this like 40 time already. Do you really need me to remind you of the things you say and advocate for? A fingernail scratch into the veneer of being a shitposter reveals a account which was deeply committed to the project of keeping Democrats aligned with Israel and the genocide in Gaza, knowing full well that it would lead to them losing. You don't get a hall pass because of how you voted.

Would you believe me if I said he just tried to argue that being Zionist is what Jews need to do?

What a shocker that someone who thinks that Israel is doing things fine also thinks Harris was a good choice. She would have agreed to fight Iran, but she's somehow better

Somehow .world is pure of heart and AN and DB0 are bad instances for being anti-fascist.

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds?

Right?

A fingernail scratch into the veneer of being a shitposter reveals a account which was deeply committed to the project of keeping Democrats aligned with Israel and the genocide in Gaza

You can use your little AI tool and check my post history here and on .world and you'll be I'm very vocal against all genocides including Gaza and Ukraine.

Would you believe me if I said he just tried to argue that being Zionist is what Jews need to do?

I'd be shocked by anything other than the most "this will surely lose to fascism" take from a fascist like SMCF. However I've evolved on what I think about their project and I think in someways we misunderstand them. I know its a polarizing pejorative, but there truly is no better descriptor for them other than Blue MAGA. And the reason for this, is something that they themselves don't even truly understand. Their goal isn't to stop fascism or even to enact some political project. I genuinely don't believe they have any internal politics. SMCF, like red fascists, their project is a cultural project. They don't have political goals for the Democratic, they have cultural goals, specifically, that the appeasement of their identity stays as the central premise of the Democratic party. And this is identical to Red MAGA; they really don't have political goals either, they have social, cultural goals.

This is why SMCF is a fascist but can't understand why, because they don't dis-aggregate the fact that they demand cultural hegemony over the Democratic party (and, lets be real, they did win, and have continued to win that fight; Blue MAGA control the democratic party). And so even though SMFC maybe "lost" the election, they lost in a way that they'll never be impacted, because their identity continues to be the protected class within Democratic party politics. They maybe lost the election, but they maintained control of the manner in which the Democratic party is allowed to have conversations: its still a party of white supremacy; its still a party where white identity and white culture is centered. We have to recognize that SMFC is fighting a different fight than we are because they weren't trying to get or prevent some politics from happening; they were trying to maintain cultural control over the DNC. And they won. They beat us because we misunderstood the game and what their goals were. And because they won and maintained control over the culture of the DNC, the DNC lost to fascism.

I wrote more on this concept here: https://lemmy.world/comment/23454844

Would you believe me if I said he just tried to argue that being Zionist is what Jews need to do?

[Citation needed.]

Well lets make it easy. Show me you advocating that Harris or Biden needed to change their policy on Israel or Gaza, or they would lose the election.

Any time from '23 to '24 will do. I'll wait.

This is why SMCF is a fascist but can’t understand why,

American liberals are just diet fascists. It's why they support Biden keeping Mexicans in cages quietly. It's why they support Harris wanting stronger military and borders. It's why they like it when Biden broke rules to aid genocide.

All good I knew you couldn't back up the things you were saying with anything based in reality.

My history is public so you can look through it if you'd like though.

Yeah but I don't need to because you've been doing it the whole time. You are even doing it in this thread. And as I've said before, we've done this half a hundred times and every time I stack the evidence up and you just dismiss it.

So instead of the negative case, you are now responsible for proving the positive case. You want to make the case that you advocated against Harris' or Biden's stance on genocide: Put up or shut up.

I'm not making the claim so I can't be bothered.

Maybe eugene will jump in here to help you out.

Dont congratulate me. I voted for sanity.

You made the claim to be anti-genocide and that you've advocated against genocide. I'm asking you to back that up for the time period '23 to '24, where that kind of advocacy had the chance of making a political difference.

I think you can't be arsed for the same reason I won't do it yet again: because you and I both know that it doesn't exist.

https://lemmy.world/comment/12045513

https://lemmy.world/comment/4875651

https://lemmy.world/comment/12345915

Three examples.

It doesn't impact him, so why would he ever advocate for it?

Literal nazi apologism

yup look at that user history. LOVES using the genocide cynically for their own selfish political goals, HATES anyone who talks about the genocide as it actually happened. Not good enough to murder children, with their blood fresh on your hands you have to pick them up by the dismembered shoulders and dance them around like marionette dolls begging to support their murderers to save their lives.

It's hard to imagine Gobbles being capable of anything as disgusting

And these are the 'good guys' in America. Death to America.

Love their examples for you is just them being indifferent or calling out other ones.

Of course we should all be listening to

cumfart

Even democratic leaders aren’t trying to strip regulations and shrink government.

Obama was happy to do that with Republicans.

Biden and Kamala were running on more privatization. Slotkin in a state of the union rebuttal was for the dems being more like Reagan, famous for stripping government.

The only difference is republicans do massive cuts while dems do frog boiling methods or just let gop be the bad ones and not fix it

She ran on a more lethal military and that Iran was our greatest enemy...

Whooo boy I kicked the fucking tankie hornet’s nest.

This post is attempting to create a litmus test that no presidential candidate from the left is going to get to the general election adhering to. This is typical Russian/Chinese propaganda, the same type of which was used to turn voters apathetic against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, which undoubtedly resulted in many, many people leaning left to abstain from voting.

We’re not doing that again.

What’s easy to deny is that the alternative would be any better, and was, in fact, much worse. At least there were calls within Joe Biden’s party to put a stop to it and headway was being made.

MAGA doesn’t give a fuck about Palestine and feels nothing when brown people die.

Oh yeah, blocked.

ooh! me, too! i want a block!

harm reduction is a specific thing. voting is not harm reduction.

Anyone to the left of indiscriminate genocide is a tankie. You heard it here folks. Ratchet effect go buuuuurrrr!

But we really are going to keep doing this, so long as the Democratic party refuses to run actual progressives.

"Don't fucking bomb foreigners" isn't a weird thing to be unwilling to compromise on.

I couldn't come up with enough energy to continue arguing, thank you.

Isn't that what we're talking about here? It ain't November. Primaries are currently happening. Yet you and your cohorts are mad at people for not supporting establishment Jefferies in this thread.

It's hilarious that the MAGA comedy act of Schmuck & Jeffries thinks they'll still be allowed on the stage after the Midterms. The first thing I expect the Dems to do after the Midterms is replace those two cowardly losers with people with the courage to fight MAGA on EVERYTHING!

And then it's two years of relentless bullying, and impeachment is definitely a good part of the strategy, even if the Senate won't vote to convict. We need to attack them aggressively on every front, especially anything that embarrasses and humiliates Trump. Impeach him over and over, every time he commits another crime. And frankly, we may get to a point where even MAGA realizes that maybe they'd be better off without him, and vote to impeach.

Then we can also go after everybody else, too, impeach one after another, just to put it on the historical record that we went after ALL the Traitors.

That will waste their time, make them scream and cry, and distract them, and keep them off balance. Drag them through investigations and hearings over and over, make them spend 3 days a week testifying in front of some committee or another, explaining themselves, and spending time in jail for contempt whenever possible. It will mean that we are closely watching and investigating them every second, making it much more difficult to pull off whatever insane strategies election fraud they'll try to pull for 2028.

MAGAs and Anti-vaxxers are the only groups for whom it is appropriate to BULLY, so do it relentlessly.

The ask was:

You want to make the case that you advocated against Harris’ or Biden’s stance on genocide: Put up or shut up.

Harris and Bidens stance on Israel led directly to them losing the election. You worked your fucking ass off to keep them in support of that genocide, and unless you can show otherwise, which, I don't think you can, we have to continue on the assumption that you are a pro-genocide fascist.

Look at those goalposts move!

You made the claim to be anti-genocide and that you've advocated against genocide. I'm asking you to back that up for the time period '23 to '24, where that kind of advocacy had the chance of making a political difference.

Every single example there was anti genocide in that time period.

Its the literal fucking thread were in dude. We're literally talking about the impacts you had on the election. Not like, catholic fucking genocide or some other random shit.

Are you okay with those genocides?

I agree and don’t want to support a party that is okay with continuing to meddle in the Middle East.

However, creating a litmus test for liberal voters that results in MAGA candidates being elected who support even worse policy is not the way forward.

Not like us geniuses

Just fuck off with your bad faith bullshit. Honestly. I'm done arguing with bots and trolls.

Notice how these posts suspiciously are more prevalent now during primary time and will ramp up during general election time again.