patents should not exist

Generally speaking, most game mechanics are not copyright-able, not patentable. Game mechanics themselves tend to be treated as base components, as in, like a drum beat or a bass line. It’s rare cases where those are distinct, usually in context (see Vanilla Ice & Under Pressure). Because a beat or bass line can be so basic as a component, it’s considered part of the arrangement and not the composition itself. Video game mechanics can likewise be in this configuration.

For instance, summoning heroes (Nintendo loss) is a mechanic / part of the composition of that game, but the larger video game is a particular arrangement. Specific characters (pikachu) can very much be copyrighted individually, but games themselves are typically less liable for patents / copyright, and so on.

Also, for good measure, since it’s a massive benefit to the freedom of expression. Video games would be a depressing medium if people could capitalize on mechanics like patent trolls.

To be clear, some technologies used in association with video games can be patented, but that’s when a patentable technology is combined with a game, which is much less common in the medium.

I disagree, if I spend time and money to figure out how to solve a problem efficiently, why shouldn't I get to profit from that idea?

The above only applies to hardware patents, software patents however should not extist.

Regardless, if a company are not actively using a patent, as in a product themselves or through licensing, for X years, then the patent should be void.

Of course it's work finding solutions to problems and you should be able to live off your work. And in capitalism, a patent sometimes is the only option to do so.

However, patents and other forms of "intellectual property" are absolutely illogical and amoral. Nobody ever made a completely new thing. Every innovation builds on so much knowledge accumulated by so many people that came before. It's absolutely nonsensical that an advancement that's 99 % an achievement of humanity and 1 % of a single person should belong to that single person.

why shouldn't I get to profit from that idea?

Why should you exclusively get to profit from that idea? In any case all innovation stands on the shoulders of giants supported by society at large. The idea of owning an idea in the first place is absurd, but setting that aside if someone will assert exclusive rights to an idea they should first repay society for all its indirect contributions to that idea, from past innovators to the workers whose labor makes it all possible. Or course this is impossible, meaning owning an idea automatically becomes absurd. And this is before we get to how pretty much all parents are based on publicly funded research. Government-granted monopolies should stay in the 19th century.

I disagree, patents makes sense for normal citizens, it gives them a legal framework to fight against a company just taking the invention from them without compensation.

As for the 99% vs 1% contribution, remember that it is usually the last 1% of a project that consumes the most time.

Because it is not really the idea specifically that you patent, you patent a method of making an idea work.

Yeah you can tell this is not real because a) it's greentext and b) you can't copyright game mechanics.

If you could we wouldn't have video game genres, or like 99% of board games.

There is one major exception where Warner Bros. holds a highly restrictive patent on the Shadow of Mordor Nemesis system. The mechanic allows non-player characters to remember past encounters with the player, dynamically changes their personalities, and rise (or fall) through enemy ranks. If you never played it, it was a unique mechanic that I've never seen in other games since. The patent prevents other studios from utilizing this system and is set to expire on August 11, 2036.

TL, DR: Fuck Warner Bros for patenting this.

the patent wasnt even granted until last yesr or 2 iirc, because it kept on getting found too general...long as you don't exactly copy their code your good.

the reason noones done something similar since is because you have to build your whole game around it

Software patents don't exist in the real world. It's just those dumb Americans living in their fantasy world who do it. Dumb fucks

The original idea behind them had some merit: in exchange for showing everyone else exactly how to do a cool new thing, you got to temporarily be the only one to profit from it. They've devolved into parenting general ideas (see the shopping cart patent) and fucking over anyone who finds a way to make the idea work, though.

That's a weak argument because everything used by normal citizens is, in practice, always used by the big corpos against the normal citizens in much greater quantity and with much more force.

Now that I think of it, it's no argument at all because I already admitted, that under capitalism, you might not have another choice to get paid for your work. That still doesn't make it morally good or logically sound.

What about that arrow in Simpsons driving game? Didn't they get in trouble for using what Sega patented in Crazy Taxi?

Potato potato, the point still stands: It's impossible to come up with a new, say, car engine design without centuries' worth of thermodynamics and assorted physics, millennia's worth of metallurgy and the labor of hundreds if not thousands of people providing the food, water, electricity, manufactured goods, etc to make the act of innovation possible, and all those people have a claim to a piece of the pie.

I keep hearing this one, the system was ok but I didn't really care for it that much. It's just an eternal list of respawning orks that I will kill.

There's been some, Bamco had the parent for minigames during loading screens until 2015.

Active Time Battle (ATB) was under patent until 2010.

Games are just software, and software patents are definitely (and unfortunately) a thing.

Not sure that's fair. It was the first pass at something that couple have been embraced, expanded and developed. Hell, it signposted the changed aspects and immunities of the orks as they grew.

But throw that into another harder game type where it's on you to remember who has escaped and got wiser and it has real potential. Especially with the superhero meme of catching villains but never ending them. Some real organic potential to hit the pained hero arc where this one is such a pain maybe I should just kill this one....

Mini Games during loading screens are patented which is why no one does it.

Nothing mentioned in the post but I am 99% sure Anon is talking about Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor/Shadow of War.

Counterpoint: Summoning characters by throwing an item and having the character appear at the position of the item has been patented by Nintendo, as has using a summoned character as a hang glider.

Japanese patent law is pretty terrible.

Is there any other notable example of this?

Yeah I remember it being underwhelming

I find it interesting that you draw the line at software, as if it doesn’t require time and money to create software solutions.

If it matters, I’m of the opinion that patents shouldn’t exist period. Capitalism loves to brag about encouraging competition and how much it benefits consumers, when in reality patents are super anticompetitive. An idea is one thing, executing the idea well is another. If I “take” your idea and execute it better than you, there shouldn’t be legislation stopping me

Didnt knew any besides that one before found this article.

For those who do not want to click:

• Nemesis mechanic by WB (expire 2036)
• Mini-games during loading screen by Namco (expired in 2015)
• Ping system - like pinging on the map so your team mates can see or pay attention to it. EA (expires 2039) FUCK EA
• Dialogue wheel like in Mass Effect - fuck EA (s 2029)
• Direction arrow - racing games, Crazy Taxi style - Sega (expired in 2018 but doubt it will be ever used again)
• Pokemon's fight and catch for later fighting mechanic - fuck Nintendo and Game Freak
• Active Time Battle - not sure, I dont play JRPGs but this one was introduced in FFIV - Square Enix (expired 2012)
• Guitar as a controller for Rocksmith - Ubisoft (2029)
• Mouse controlled flight for aircraft games - Gaijin (expires 2033)
• Plastic musical instruments - Harmonix that was fighting with Konami for the rights (expires 2032)

Nemesis system is probably the most notable because it was a great mechanic that everyone liked. And it is only been used in 2 games and never again.

Edit: Ubisoft and Rocksmith instead of Guitar Hero.

yep, minigames on loading screens.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/loading-screen-game-patent-finally-expires

pointless in the age of direct storage and high SSD speeds.

if you've lived before that: corporate thanks you for patiently waiting while counting their unrealized gains and lost potential on spreadsheets and ppts

So minigames when shaders compile?

I wonder if we could make a gamejam game that violates all of these.

company Nintendo

Shame Ubisoft didn’t do this for climbing a tower to reveal the surrounding area in the map tbh

The key is "temporarily" though. Even in the 18th century and prior when technology evolved at the pace of a snail on sedatives that meant 5, maybe 10, at most 15 years.

Then in the 90s the world's international cartel of IP rights got together and decided they should make it 20 years everywhere, just so corporations can monopolize anything they make for the entire the duration of its usefulness. With the speed of progress today I'd be surprised if most aren't obsolete before they become available to the general public. 3D printing is only a thing now because Stratasys was hoarding the FDM patent since the fucking 90s.

Shit needs to go back down to 5 years again.

Some games can take 10 years to make, someone should start now

I'm actually sick of this one. Way too many games do it. Even goddamn final fantasy 7 remake 2 did a shitty version of it

The patent went through in 2021.

And Namco (minigames in loading screens, started in Ridge Racer), Warner Bros (Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor), SEGA (GPS arrows from Crazy Taxi)...

I know "Nintendo bad" is a popular narrative but they're far from the only one.

The Guitar Hero one is crazy. They patented pressing buttons?

Or when waiting in a multiplayer lobby.

Correction needs to be made. Albeit picture in the article is Guitar Hero, that point talks about a real guitar as a controller for Rocksmith. Patent is probably for a cable and a technique that is used in game to detect notes (basically a smart and fast tuner).

The biggest annoyance is that patents doesn't prevent usage... Just require permission... they could ask anything or nothing, it just would need to be acceptable. And well here we are.

Splatoon was really good at this one

Wasn't the Pokemon ones ruled as invalid or not registrable with big N fight with Pal World?

Silksong did it so much better. Just listen out for the sound of song.

The GPS arrow is patented?

and the game was released in 2014, the reason noone has done similar isnt becauss of some patent. nobody reads patents that's the whole point of patent trolling

Sega applied for and was awarded U.S. Patent 6,200,138 – "Game display method, moving direction indicating method, game apparatus and drive simulating apparatus" – in 2001. The mechanics in the "138 patent" describe an arcade cabinet similar to Sega's previous arcade game Harley-Davidson & L.A. Riders (1997), but also describe the arrow navigation system and pedestrian avoidance aspects that were used in Crazy Taxi.

In 2001, Electronic Arts and Fox Interactive released The Simpsons: Road Rage, which reviews identified as being clearly inspired by the gameplay of Crazy Taxi. In this game, the player controlled one of The Simpsons characters as they drive around Springfield, bringing passengers to these destinations in a way like in Crazy Taxi. In December 2001, Sega brought Fox Entertainment, Electronic Arts, and developer Radical Games Ltd. to court over this infringement of the 138 patent. The case, Sega of America, Inc. v. Fox Interactive, et al., was settled in private for an unknown amount. The 138 patent is considered to be one of the most important patents in video game development.

But its GUITAR SHAPED!

LOL

Sadly, the real reason is because we'll buy any old slop if we see enough adverts for it, or enough streamers wanking off over it.

When everything had long loading times (and we still have them from time to time) there was a genius idea : minigames on the loading screen to pass the time.

ONE company did this, patented the concept and till then no one is allowed to do that.

Irrelevant, defeatist, and shitting on people what did nothing wrong. Go sit in the corner. Think about what you've done.