I used to really like mac computers but they're obviously becoming more locked down over the years. Is it even worth it to buy them? On my old computer, I used the OS until it didn't update anymore and then I flashed Linux. This is how I extend the life of my computer! Should I just buy from System 76 next time I buy a computer? :( That's what I'm planning to do.

If you have a Mac already then Asahi is a useful project that lets you use Linux on your existing hardware.

If you're going to buy a new machine don't punch yourself in the dick, so to speak, by buying something that can only use Linux from one specific project. Buy something that gives you the freedom to do what you want.

The primary appeal of Apple's products is that they're designed 'just work'. This is only true when assuming that you're willing to pay the higher costs, use their OS and subscribe to the walled garden services. If you're looking at a new laptop and will be using Linux then an Apple product is simply a more expensive piece of hardware that does the opposite of 'just work'.

Unless you really care about being seen using Apple products, buy something high quality that's compatible with your planned use case.

If your talking about giving up on Asahi because Apple isn't playing nice ... Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. The reason Linux worked on m1 and m2 is because Apple didn't care, not because they wanted to be compatible; and now that their hardware is incompatible, they still don't care.

Framework is also good. I think some other companies also treat Linux as a first class citizen. Even Dell will sell Linux supported laptops, or at least has before.

Personally, the idea of "extending the life" by installing Linux is foreign to me because I immediately put Linux on any hardware I get anyway. Treating Linux as the goal instead of the last resort makes for a much more acclimated environment.

System 76 it is! Or maybe a cheap Shenzhen knockoff.

macOS is a good OS that just works, say what you want about Apple but this is true for my usecase. I forgot about Dell, that was my go-to when I was using Windows.

Framework is some sort of a trap. They are not really durable and practicle for average user for sure. No idea about other models, but FW16 was quite hot and throttling, despite clean fans and replaced thermalpastes. 100*C is normal for it. Not to mention that it costs quite a lot...

https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en

There’s always Lenovo!

If all you're comparing it to is Windows then yeah, I guess.

I can talk plenty of shit about Apple and MacOS, but I did neither in my previous post. If your use case is not Linux then stick with not-Linux.

Personally, the idea of “extending the life” by installing Linux is foreign to me because I immediately put Linux on any hardware I get anyway.

Well, that's still sort of extending it past 0, so...

Going to add to this, if you're developing apps for their walled garden (like me) then you have to buy their hardware and run their software. But I have it in my head that some day, we'll get an emulator that can run on Linux and then Asahi can make that hardware useful again.

I would look at framework. more repairable, more upgradeable, and they've recently taken steps to make their products closer to a max level of quality (including the option of a haptic touchpad on their two main models)

I looked at framework, but I am not interested in a laptop, I like 'desktop servers.' Mini pcs that I use to serve content to my phone or an ipad that I can only very occasionally use as a desktop computer rather than a server. System 76 and Dell have really energy efficient mini pcs. Framework seems more laptop focused but I'll give it a second look because I've heard it recommended before

oh, well in that case the framework desktop might be in line with what your looking for. it's like 1 liter in volume so not very big and it runs a pretty powerful processor with very fast ram and a very similar layout to how macs tend to be set up. it is expensive but not too much more than a mac.

So it's $500?

A used Apple M2 desktop or laptop is probably the best deal in the biz right now. I'm rocking Asahi GNOME on an old Mac mini M1 right now, works great. Why worry about ditching Asahi? Are you having any problems with it?

I actually haven't tried it yet, my old mac was Intel I was considering which new machine to buy. The laptop hinge is sort of falling off, some issues with the screen and plus I want something new and shiny. I just heard Asahi kind of sucked and wouldn't be supported in the future, I wonder if it's true.

Ah I see. Well it's true that there's some concern about how the compatibility story could work from M3 onward, but as I said, M1/M2 generation is pretty solid and you can get a great deal from the used market. I don't know who was telling you it sucked. 😅

Asahi is still getting a lot of work and development done, but since they’re reverse engineering everything without proper documentation from Apple, they basically get kicked back to square one on any component that Apple makes big changes too with each new generation of chip. They’re more focused on polishing off support on older chips and keeping what they have up to date rather than jumping on every new chip release and leaving stuff unfinished on the older ones

So right now M1 and M2 Macs are fully supported. M3s are mostly working but very much a WIP, and M4 hasn’t really gone anywhere yet.

I’d say that if you find the advantages of the M chips really compelling, but want to stay on Linux, an M2 running Asahi is still very competitive, and the work to support the M3s is chugging along.

If you want the newest hardware possible, then yah you’re probably better off with an AMD or Intel based computer. There are also some other ARM based desktops out there, and Linux on arm is a thing, I have no idea what’s going on over there though.

meme question for sure

Thanks, this is helpful for me

Shenzen knockoff probably not have same level or even ok hardware support. But good as backup pc if main kick bucket.

I dipped my toe in the s76 pool with a fully specced lemp10.

It was by far the best Linux experience I've had on a laptop to date, but I still ended up back on an m2 mbp...

2 killer issues were:

1. finding realistic personal replacements for fusion360 and Affinity Designer. (freecad and inkscape just aren't for me); and
2. The hardware just worked together better on the Mac (BT, audio, screen, WiFi, networking etc..).

I'm planning on taking my m2 mbp to asahi once the fingerprint scanner is working and dual booting for cad and vector graphics apps if I can't get crossover versions working.

Net:Net I want to like s76, but the LEMP ended up basically the same price as the MBP and the Mac hardware was vastly superior (screen, audio, power management, etc)

I'll try Linux again on my next laptop purchase again...

Some of them have Ubuntu pre-installed

If you're going to pay Apple prices, you might as well look at Framework.

only in our dreams

I am trying to find something that's basically a mac mini but better... I'm willing to pay more for something that lasts a really long time. I've noticed most of these recommended machines are reparable.

that's basically what the fw desktop is meant to be. idk how good it is at it but the pricing tends to be 2-5k depending on your options, so similar to a mac mini.

I got my wife into Linux after I put Mint on her old Lenovo, and she did some research, also told me Framework was a good brand. :) I got her away from Windows, recruiting everyone I know

Maybe this?

What prices are you seeing? I just saw 400-500 for MacBook m2 but I worry about battery life and heat

Need to emulate iOS, not macos.