I understand what this is getting at. But trying to compare the two isn't the same. The meat industry does need a major overhaul but the subsidies for a cash crop and livestock will never reach 1 to 1.

Just-so fallacy. Why shouldn't it be the same? Cause it wouldn't exist then? Why should it exist?

Because finding a true plant based alternative that is acceptable for meat eaters is much closer than any other form to erradicación of the meat industry.

Good luck convincing Europeans to let go of their traditional cheeses and sausages.

To quote above user fatvegan@leminal.space:

“Oh no”

I'm European, I say fuck the animal product industry. Traditions that people care about won't fully die out anyway

Of course, I can only speak for myself

What an incredibly fucked up thing to do. I'm not a vegan but I don't see any reason why meat should be subsidized at all, given the numerous problems with both raising and consuming it.

Agriculture in industrialized countries, as it depends on high capital investment, chemical products like fertilizer, pesticides, and antiobiotics, and cheap saisonal migratory workers, is just a kind of industry. The beef industry specifically is simply a part of the fossil industry, as it can't exist without cheap fossil fuel. The carbon footprint of meat is at least ten times higher than the footprint of grocery.

Subsidizing the meat industry is subsidizing the fossil industry. Why would any sane denocratic goverment do that?

it pretty much guarantees conservative voting areas in many countries, which is why its subsidized, and plus the cheap labor.

I agree. I'm a meat eater but if the market forced me to not eat meat anymore due to ecological conditions then I wouldn't eat meat anymore. Too bad the market only cares about sell, sell, sell. And in this world, nothing matters unless it sells.

It found beef and lamb were subsidised 580 times more than legumes in 2020, while pork was subsidised nearly 240 times more. Dairy, meanwhile, received 554 times more in subsidies than nuts and seeds.

This shows in shops price. Beef price/kg is similar or lower than appetizers with seeds and dried fruits. The later deserves more subsidies not less, for obvious reasons (lower environmental impact, better for health, longer shelf life).

Certainly that’s the case in the US. It would be suicide for US republicans adhere to their conservative values and drop subsidies, which would outrage all the farmers whose vote republicans rely on. (edit) So the survival of the republican party inherently forces them into hypocricy.

But why don’t the dems nix meat subsidies? No farmers vote for dems, so no loss there. But I suppose there would be enough meat-eating dems who would abandon their own party. Just like in California a politician tried to push a fuel tax and got voted out by both parties.

Guardian is paywalled for me.

seems like farmers a evil necessities in most states.

That explains why vegetables are more expensive, at least in Ireland.

Surely higher meat prices would encourage this search.

You nor anyone else don't need to stop completely. Just reducing meat consumption already has big effects!

Or, more controversally, stop paying for meat. I personally have no ethical problem with shoplifting meat. To buy meat is unethical because it supports the meat industry. To shoplift is to punish and deter those causing harm.

The only thing that stops me from shoplifting meat is I cannot be bothered to study the art of it and then take on the risks of getting caught.

Not eating it is much easier than stealing it. But I don't have a problem with others doing it, as long as they only do it in huge evil chain stores, not small family-owned businesses

Not eating it is much easier than stealing it.

Indeed. But also less effective.

I consider vegans neutral. They neither help nor hinder the industry of animal products. I love this quote by Desmond Tutu:

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”

I live in a country with stagnating and sinking meat consumption. The producers are definitely feeling it. Remember that in capitalism, anything but growth is a tragedy

Remember that in capitalism, anything but growth is a tragedy

Can’t say I’m with you. If the top hat shop goes out of business because the demand for top hats dies off, it’s a good thing. It’s one of the few good features of capitalism to have a natural death of that particular variety of waste (the waste of producing beyond demand).

If the consumption of meat is dropping (good!), then it’s even more important for grocers to stock less of it.