all the based girls beat up the boys, this has always been

Any time a group of people is open to anyone joining it's going to get ruined by the awful people using it as an excuse to be awful. Doubly so when the original group of people is emotionally vulnerable and hurt.

Incel, Femcel, doesn't matter. Makes no difference to awful people what they're called if they can get in a group to collectively fantasize about being more awful than they could get way with in real life. I wish the actual people that are hurt can get the help they need to get better.

I've never met a "femcel" - as in a woman with poor social skills who stays inside and games a lot, perhaps lacking optimism about their romantic prospects and overall destiny - in my life so the whole concept did strike me as weird. Seeing the "femcel" subreddits, twitter pages and Instagram pages, all it reminded me of were the toxic girls from my hometown who essentially scared off new prospects by being so rude to them and CLEARLY chose their lifestyle very early on.

I therefore think femcel is a misnomer. I think generally women aren't getting hung up on men in an incel-ly way - the ones that do skip straight to stalker serial killer lady - I think women are good at socialising and always have some sort of support system.

I think you overestimate the ability of biological women to hold their own against biological men once the men are >14 years old. Women deal less forceful blows and they usually have shorter stature which reduces leverage, this reducing force of attack and wrestling ability. They have less grip strength usually, and will struggle to reach the man.

In other words: it doesn't really happen? Also why exactly would violence be based, anyway? If this is some sort of reaction to men attacking women, then pretending there are "based women who beat on men" doesn't really solve that issue, nor does it necessarily solve any problems if it actually happens.

If we are talking about literal boys and girls, I'm never going to celebrate kids beating each other up. That's just weird.

This makes it sound as if women never commit violence against men, which is just not true. Most people are not always on edge ready to fight for their life, fights are not always decided by whoever is physically stronger.

And even though it's a crime to beat someone in most countries, this sort of violence, especially if it's of sexual nature, is probably somewhere around the most underreported ones.

If a man tells someone he was beaten by a woman, he is automatically a laughingstock material, because "oh, men are physically stronger than women, no way that happened". It's even worse for rape, because there is no concept of men not consenting to sex in the "traditional" masculinity image.

If a women wants to beat up men she just needs to take MMA for a year then find someone she is size matched with. There is no shortage of men who can't fight.

You are generalizing quite a bit, aren’t you?

I've never met a femcel

Classic case of survivorship bias, that's because the have poor social skills and stay inside. Unless you breaking and entering their homes you can't find them.

If violent retribution is one of the paths inceldom leads to, it's not terribly surprising if a femcel group goes the same way. What's that saying? "Hurt people hurt people"?

If the only bond a group of people have is due to the pain they're in, it can easily turn toxic. It's a shame so many people turn toward incel/femcel communities instead of toward groups about shared interests or topics. I get wanting to commiserate with others, but when it becomes a circle jerk of sadness, sticking around can make existing issues so much worse.

I'm simply autistic, trans, and in a rural area. My "prospects" are extremely limited, and my poor social skills would inhibit me even if they weren't.

I'm in the femcel to get hugboxed and encouraged that I'll find someone someday if I really want to, and to do the same for others.

I can't speak for all of us, but I actually really like boys; I think they're cute :3

I like to think most of us (at least those of us on !femcelmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone) simply want to commiserate and get emotional support while we don't have lovers.

Serious question, has anyone ever tried making a community for both incels and femcels so they can learn about each other and find common ground? I think it could be beneficial to both.

Thanks for admitting it. Now I know who should I block.

...No they're not?

Last Incel I met was a child groomer.

Are we just posting fake greentexts now? The bait isn't good enough so you need to make your own?

The real issue is that, most of the time, those who want to do harm are themselves emotionally vulnerable and hurt, which is why they gravitated to those in-groups in the first place. They turn their pain into justification which they feel entitles them to harm others as an act of retribution. "Eye for an eye" type shit.

Every incel/femcel began as a teenager that didn't know better, who was probably just a little weird or was taught some bullshit by their parents, who got bullied for what they perceived as being nothing more than themselves, and they had no one to help them cope with it in a healthy way.

Damn.

Oof. I can see where that would turn you off to the idea.

Come on, I'm a femcel with weird ideas like "Christians are brainwashing you", not an evil person.

I don't see you posting real greentexts of your own.

I wouldn't say most of the time, but that is true to some extent. I think most of the time that the actual incels just want the emotional support that they desperately need, but when coming into contact with people online naively believe everyone that calls themselves an incel is like them. So its easy for them to be manipulated. That's where I think much of the bad reputation online for "incel" comes from, from people that were manipulated by others looking for easy targets. Many of the people that might feequent "incel communities" genuinely need help and are unknowingly drinking from a contaminated well.

As to your second remark, not every person who has trouble with emotional connection started as a teenager that was bullied. Perhaps you are talking exclusively about the people that manipulate the vulnerable ones, in that case I can say it is probably mostly true, but there are certainly exceptions.

I think most people that frequent those type of communities feel the same, and I hope you and all of the emotionally vulnerable, man or woman, are able to get real help that you need to feel better and more self-confident. Pain in the heart is not a fun thing to spend one's time dealing with.

Problem with that is that there's a very small window in which saving an incel/femcel is easy. Before that window, they're generally still normal but maybe withdrawing. After that window....interacting with them just kinda sucks. You need to have a certain willingness to deal with excessive self-deprecating sadness and basically make life worth living for them.

Incel/femcel communities stew in that toxicity, so it's easy to add your own toxicity to the stew. Normal people don't want to put up with that shit.

Source: a dear friend from back in the day dealt with my nearly incel ass, preventing me from falling all the way down the hole.

That's what makes the world go round.

No, I get it, you made a compelling point.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China? Stop posting made-up nonsense.

It's a greentext... Most of them are made up nonsense to begin with.

Incels and femcels are natural enemies.

I'll put on my incel cap and you give the Incel answer: femcels dont exist.
An Incel would say to a femcel "I'll date you" and the femcels would say no therefore proving the Incels point thats its voluntary celibacy.

Sounds like you’re doing it wrong. When I hold the pads for my missus in the gym she hits like a hammer 💕

It really isn't fun. Thanks for the kind words.

"Can't reproduce"

Well done overcoming that situation! That friend sounds like they're worth their weight in gold. I'm glad they were able to help you and you were able to redirect from that toxic pipeline.

I imagine prevention is the best medicine. I know a single comment from a stranger is unlikely to do much, but the more we talk about the dangers of falling down the incel rabbithole, the more likely someone will be able to recognize the situation for themselves.

Eh.

I'm still in my mid 30s and involuntarily celibate. I'm just not an incel. I recognize this is a skill issue on my part, not the fault of women.

Fuck it, in a couple of years I'll fuck off into the ocean and go sailing.

Oh, I'm not congratulating you on getting laid, I'm glad you overcame the situation insofar as the mental prison of inceldom is concerned.

Regardless of what you do, you at least have a good head on your shoulders. The ability to self-reflect instead of blaming others is some key emotional growth. I'm proud of you for that.

Tbf it's not entirely a skill issue (while still not being the fault of "women").

The fracturing of society for starters isn't helping, many people isolating due to that, and phones/social media/doomscrolling etc, many isolated during covid and still haven't recovered to their old ways, many can't afford to do shit else these days even if they did want to break out of it, none of that is helping and it's a serious societal issue bigger than "skill issue" in reality.

Also the commodification of dating isn't helping any, you have to be on and pay for the hook-up apps as a barrier to entry, or pay for (your own I don't just mean hers) drinks at a bar, both of which are more conducive to hook-ups than long term partnerships. Short of that "get a hobby, make friends, and hopefully one of those friends will set you up with someone." So basically if you're a FOSS/privacy advocate who doesn't drink much anymore and hates the idea of listing profiles like you're a dog up for adoption, your only option is to pray.

The only other option is to go back to the old ways: Its a numbers game. Just ask, politely and take no for an answer (and not like, lewd, like ask for a lunch date or phone number or something), but ask, anywhere and everywhere, doesn't matter if it's now "uncouth" to ask in say the grocery store, fuck it. If she's into you it'll be fine, if not, fuck it who cares worst she can do is be rude and you'll never have to talk to her again. I don't do this now because I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable, but so far figuratively praying hasn't worked and literally closing out bars (has become too expensive ffs but also) has only led to fleeting infatuations and FWBs, and while those are fun I'm looking for more than that, so, we'll see maybe I'll try it.

It's a skill issue to a degree, but also dating has been negatively affected by a general trend of social isolation, the economy being bad, and the same social media brain rot that has affected everything else along with it, on top of that.

Lol I don't get laid

Weird faked post

yeah brazil doesn't exist

It's absolutely a skill issue by my age.

I have gotten dates at the grocery store before, which is where the second skill issue comes in: women don't stick around very long.

Ah well shit, maybe then idk. I have the opposite problem I guess, hard to start a convo, but if I do I can usually keep people around.

I mean, I definitely don't start convos the way people want me to start convos, either. Idk. Just had the weirdest experience last night. Two weeks ago, I met this girl who was pretty cool in a friend way. Also, she doesn't swing my way, no problem. Cool person. So last weekend I went out with her and some of her friends. One of her friends was kinda cute, we talked a bit, but not long at all. Nothing I would consider serious. I wasn't trying to hit on her. She didn't seem uncomfortable at all.

Then last night, hanging out with the same group of people. This girl I talked to would straight up run away if I got within ten feet of her. Happened twice, and then I started avoiding her because like...clearly causing distress with my presence alone.

What do I do with that? I mean apart from keep avoiding her, cause clearly she doesn't want to be anywhere near me.

Yeah idk what I'd do with that either, idk that I've ever had that reaction (if I have I just never noticed). I mean "completely ignore" seems like what I'd probably do tbh, definitely never interact again.

Is that the right move? Fuckin' idfk lol. But that's what I'd default to.

An Incel would say to a femcel "I'll date you" and the femcels would say no therefore proving the Incels point thats its voluntary celibacy.

I won't lie, they would kinda have a point with that.

I am not suggesting incels and femcels should date each other, that probably would be a bad idea, but some people who call themselves incel/femcel are just overly picky with unrealistic expectations of the kind of partner they can reasonably expect to draw the attention of. That is not involuntary, that is quite literally voluntary.

I only noticed because the second time I sat on the other side of the couch she was sitting on to check when the fireworks were gonna be, and she straight jumped up and out of the room. I wasn't like, close to her or leaning her way or anything.

I probably give off some kind of creep vibes, I just don't really understand how or why, and at this point I have zero clue on how to fix it. Guess I just gotta accept that single straight women under age 50 avoid me like the plague. Old ladies at the yacht club love me.

Lol I feel that, older ladies have always loved me too, and I haven't historically had a problem with that...

Yacht club is beyond me, but bar milfs we've always clicked.

Yeah idk she's definitely not into it, but I'm not Truman Showing you so I'm at a loss as to why. But that's the "no" you take for an answer and move on, ask another, fuck it.

Yeah like people are calling this fake but like. Women's fundamental humanity being equal to men's means there's just as much capacity for degeneracy.

Well I've never seen it.

These people often have other issues too but they don't want to accept that so instead they try and make it everybody else's fault.