Starting September 30th, there's going to be a tsunami of Android users looking for an alternative system fleeing this developer verification malware.

In your opinion, are things like post market OS and the rest of the Linux phone ecosystem ready to take on these new users?

I looked into this a bit when my partner wanted a new phone. It looked like Linux phones weren't quite ready for adoption by the masses and they were expensive compared to other Android based solutions

I didn't find the expense to be the big issue so much as I don't see a new-ish device that's capable.

Postmarket OS, for example, appears to work the absolute best on the Google Pixel 3 and the OnePlus 6, and both of those are well past their production dates and are hard to get hold of.

I think they ought to put up a list somewhere of the newest devices they support with at least decent support such as your standard calling, texting, media, etc.

It makes a lot more sense to put an OS on an existing phone. His phone is what needed replacing so I was looking for devices that ran Linux out of the box. He mostly wanted to avoid bloatware, telemetry and bullshit.

Fairphone 2-6 and Shiftphone 6 & 8 have relatively good pmos support for newer phones.

According to this recent post it seems one brave developer just made the microphone work with PMOS on FP6 and it does not yet work for calls. It looks quite far from being ready for the average user. https://ani.social/post/33936031

I factored in Mighty Cat’s recent driver upgrades into my calculations.

It seems on average the 6 Fairphone models are 64% functional while the Fairphone 6 is 73% the way there. Quite impressive for a year old phone.

Maaaybe SailfishOS? Although it only works on Jolla Phone and Sony Xperia phones...

and the new commodore flip phone!

There is the Volla phone which can dual boot their degoggled Android and Ubuntu Touch. Im interested in this concept.

https://volla.online/en/operating-systems/

FuriOS and Ubuntu Touch are the closest options to daily-drive.

SailfishOS as main driver since at least 2020.

On several of the Sony Xperias.

I'm not looking back.

I know what people are going to criticize about it.

It's a EU company, I have read all the small print and I trust them.

Bought an Oneplus 6 for testing, but didn'tmake it my daily driver. PMOS is there software-wise, but the drivers (calling, camera) aren't there yet. Sailfish works (because it uses that Halium thing), but I found the software unintuitive and the lack of a proper web browser being available without the use of the android sandbox scared me away.

However I've been noticing that one legend who recently regularily updates on the fediverse how he tries to get feature completeness for the Fairphone 6 in PMOS, so maaybe we're up to someyhing there?

I can't wait for the legend's next post 🥹

I don't think I've so much as touched my PinePhone in years. I should charge it up and try loading some new software builds on it.

My friend has been dailydriving the older Jolla phone for a while now and it seems usable with the android translation later or whatever it is. I just ordered the new Jolla phone, let's just hope it's good enough that I don't have to keep my old android as a backup

Not even remotely, even if Mobile Linux was good and viable the grand majority of disgruntled Android users aren't switching. Thats if it was good and viable which it isnt even remotely. Hardware support is poor, the software experience is extremely bad (yes I have actually used postmarketos), and overall its just not something that people are gonna want to use.

On September 30th when people look for alternatives they will find nothing and give up, if there was a viable alternative google wouldn't be doing this

ubports and sailfish just works, but there's no apps

do banking apps (or apps that require some sort of attestation) work? That's my blocker.

That's why I use GrapheneOS

Volla is a scam. Bad phones, bad customer services.

I think they ought to put up a list somewhere of the newest devices they support with at least decent support such as your standard calling, texting, media, etc.

pmOS does have a list of supported devices, and for the list labeled "main" support, it's empty, as they do not deem any if their currently supported devices (in the "community" or "testing" sections) to be usable/stable enough for daily use for the average person. Of the supported devices, it's clearly labeled what does and doesn't work for each device

Other spins like Mobian and Ubuntu Touch have similar pages too!

Well, I got the Quintus with dual boot and I didn't have any problems so far

As of right now, I think mobile Linux still needs some more time before it's ready for mass adoption. For the developers and tinkerers, it's a fun project and, depending on your needs, it can be usable as a daily driver as your main or side phone, but it's still a little unstable with many missing conveniences compared to the duopoly. App support is already good enough in my opinion, especially with Waydroid being a thing. As for device support, I think if you do want to try mobile Linux, get a well-supported device to start, like a used OnePlus 6 or Pixel 3a series, and just play around with it. I found it very fun, and there are lots of cool things you can do with mobile Linux too! I particularly enjoyed the lack of microtransactions in all the games...(Animatch, Ultimate Tic Tac Toe, Pentobi, a few desktop games are playable with mouse and keyboard)

A good alternative right now is to recommend a degoogled Android ROM for people who want to keep the openness of Android but don't want to go all in to Linux phones just yet. iodeOS, GrapheneOS, e/OS, and now CalyxOS (they're back!) are all great options that won't have the same restrictions as stock Android. Fairphones, Pixels, etc. are all great devices to be recommended for this purpose.

While I'm also asking for myself, I'm currently running Lineage OS with no Google apps or services, but eventually I think I'll be forced off of an Android-based system entirely.

Besides installing malware on devices with Google Play services, Google is also doing things like making AOSP less frequent updates and stuff like that too. Eventually, I'm figuring I'm just going to have to leave and go to a Linux phone entirely, whether I want to or not.

For me personally, the things that I absolutely need to work are the touchscreen, calling, texting, cellular data, microphone, speaker, bluetooth, and Wi-Fi.

Isn't the Fairphone only sold in Europe? I would like to consider getting one, but I live in the US, and as far as I'm aware, they aren't sold here

Is that phone only sold in Europe? I'm a US resident

As far as banking apps go, I would do exactly what I'm doing now and use my bank from the web browser.

Can you even get the Jolla phone in the US?

From my testing with pmOS and a used OnePlus 6, one of the best supported devices + the potent SD845 chipset: touchscreen, cellular data, microphone, speaker, bluetooth, and Wi-Fi all work. I have not tested calling or texting, as I mainly focused on using its cameras, listening to music, and playing fun (awesome native Linux) games, and from reading the wiki, it will kind of work with some weird quirks (audio dropping out, that sort of thing). Pretty interesting though.

I enjoyed playing around with the cameras a lot, it was kind of a case where they were so bad they became good again, looking almost film-like with lots of grain and blooming

I don't know if I can get either a shift or fairphone here in the U.S.

Can you get their phone in the US?

You can order a fairphone through Murena

Okay, thanks!

It depends, are you someone that thinks 16-year-old Wayland is ready? Or Linux is ready for desktop? How much broken-ness and insecurity is acceptable?

I will not lay down the oil to start the firery debate between X11 and Wayland, but I run a Wayland desktop with no issues. Mint works well for a lot of people while being X11 based.

Desktop Linux is definitely ready for the masses, most of the big distros (Mint, Fedora, etc.) and desktop environments (GNOME, Plasma, Cinnamon, etc.) are very usable on most hardware and are much more stable than it was many years ago. I don't run into many large issues, and this is with the rolling release EndeavourOS (Arch-based). When I was using Mint for a bit, I had no issues at all!

For now, mobile Linux still needs to grow more before mass adoption, but it's a fun project if you're a developer and want something new and interesting!

Sadly SFOS is largely (UI, core apps) proprietary, including that Android support layer.

Sadly SFOS is largely (UI, core apps) proprietary.

I run a Wayland desktop with no issues

Useless anecdote that ignores all the factual issues still present in Wayland.

Mint works well for a lot of people

Mint forums and discussions say it doesn't for many more.

are very usable on most hardware

I don't see how fetch, htop, and screenshot make a computer 'useable'. Useable for reddit karma farming?

I do trust them, they're great people, but I don't like the proprietarieness of it :(

Just wait until you have a hardware problem, they will charge you even under warranty.

At this point, what I'm thinking about is not using my phone as more than a phone+hotspot. Anything I want to run will be on a second device with me, which would be for everything else.

What that second device is.... currently up for debate. I was going to build a clamshell style palmtop, but honestly I just don't have the time. Maybe I'll get a PMOS friendly tablet?

Unfortunately my country (sweden) has built the entire society around a 2FA-app created by the banks. When I need banking apps, it's not to handle bank things, it's to pay for a bus ticket, book an appointment at the dentist, sign contracts, log into my work computer, etc. It's very difficult to function in society without this app.

Been trialing Ubuntu Touch and looks great, solid moves forward. The UI flow is not my fav, but ok with compromises. But yes, in a world where we will need the browser to replace our apps, that is such a centerpiece. As well I wish to be able to use a system wide custom DNS like control D or nextdns for safety. Hopes for all these to keep on getting better

all hail Mighty Cat.

Useless anecdote that ignores all the factual issues still present in Wayland.

Again, I don't want to provoke a fire. Yes, some work needs to be done for certain features (I believe progress has been made on multi-monitor/desktop stuff), but it's stable enough for both GNOME and Plasma to fully switch to it, and Cinnamon is working hard to implement it too.

Both X11 and Wayland have their place. I don't think it's helpful to start burning bridges

Mint forums and discussions say it doesn't for many more.

Typically, forums are for people to discuss troubles that people have had to find help, minor or not, not for boasting how well your system runs usually. In my own experience and that of many people I know, Mint is a very smooth experience that is easy to pick up.

I don't see how fetch, htop, and screenshot make a computer 'useable'. Useable for reddit karma farming?

Now I think you're trolling. I never mentioned any of those, and I don't currently use Reddit either (or really ever, I'm not the social media type. I mostly use Lemmy to seek and offer help in various topics of my interest). I daily drive EndeavourOS and I can do web browsing, document editing programming, CAD, photo editing, video editing, and gaming (both PC titles and emulation run excellently!)

Hmm I wonder if any of the open handhelds have SIM connectivity

Problems are punished on Reddit, stupid 'I just switched to Mint' posts rewarded.

You MUST be aware that document editing, CAD, photo editing, video editing, and gaming suck on FOSS. -It's an objective truth. Your propaganda has been debunked so many times.

You MUST be aware that document editing, CAD, photo editing, video editing, and gaming suck on FOSS

Well, turns out it doesn't. LibreOffice is really nice to use and automatically works with my theme which is always nice. You also have OnlyOffice if you want something with a different UI , though, it is Russian owned and has weird licensing issues going on.

Photo editing is also really easy, there's lots of good stuff out there. Rawtherapee is great for processing photos from my camera, but Inkscape is AMAZING for vector work (what I usually deal with)

Video editing with Kdenlive is very smooth, I don't do too much if it but if you need additional functionality you can also use Davinci Resolve.

Games on Linux runs fine and dandy, Hades, Hollow Knight, Hearts of Iron IV, Minecraft (p.s. the cross-platform Prism Launcher is awesome for managing versions, shaders, and mods!), and Balatro (all of which I installed as Windows games) run really well (Proton/Wine is awesome!), and there's also a few neat native Linux games that are fun, quite basic, nothing graphically intensive, like 2048 and puzzles. Xonotic is an exception though, but it's pretty old now. STK is getting a new release soon and I'm excited for that!

As for emulation, Retroarch and all the cores run fine, no weird compatabilities here! I can run my favourite GC, PS2, GBA, DS, etc. super easily!

I see you're liar and am leaving the discussion.

Wait until you go onto the microsoft help forums.

Yeah, the Linux evangelists and their fake issues are rampant there huh?