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i dont understand the logic in not voting.

so. what are you going to do with the 20 minutes you saved not voting, ykno other than having your thumb up your ass and not starting the revolution.

I don't really have a problem with people who do actual organizing and activism not voting since I think that's a lot more impactful. I mean I would prefer they vote but I'd say what they're doing is more than someone who only votes but takes no other political actions.

What really bothers me is people who just spend all their time online angrily criticizing people for doing some political action they deem not useful but who don't do or even suggest another alternative. It's just laziness and apathy disguised as moral superiority.

Well for many it has been designed to be an all day thing. If you only have to take 20 minutes to vote. Consider yourself very lucky. It's not uncommon especially in red states in the United States. To hear stories of people waiting in line for 3, 4, 6, to 8 hours or more. And I can sympathize with people not wanting to go through that. That's the whole point of it after all.

But yeah if you're in a place where it would only take 20 minutes to vote. It is absolutely ridiculous not to vote. Ultimately voting alone isn't going to fix or change anything. It's going to take a lot of us running as well as working outside the system. And if you decide not to vote yourself. That's fine. That's your choice ultimately. But then advocating and campaigning for others to not vote as well. And that seems intentionally self-destructive.

Would Trump's anti-trans orders or their equivalents exist under Kamala?

See I just admit I’m lazy and apathetic and since voting is the least I can do it’s all I do.

And it doesn’t matter because nobody I vote for wins. Except Fetterman.

So anyone want to tell them how DSA electeds and those aligned have been doing well in the primaries? Or is the org fake socialism to the instance?

Not likely. But that doesn't make them actual allies. There's value in not accelerating harm and collapse of course. But that's little consolation for those already being harmed. Which unfortunately just voting for the candidates put forth by the party establishment isn't going to change. They've largely shown no interest, and only moved when they absolutely had to do something.

It's going to take candidates like the DSA running as Democrats against the establishment. Tearing the party and it's leadership from the hands of the establishment. Which voting will absolutely be a part of. But not the solution itself. Give the people something to vote for. Not against if you will.

Or the dismantling of various government supports and aid programs?

learned my lesson before and just do it right away now so I don't get a bunch of asinine replies I don't want to respond to

You can also just block jankforlife and get rid of 99% of dumb takes...

These mofos still claiming "blue maga" is a thing‽ Such obvious crap!

Plenty of them hate DSA and think they aren't left enough either.

They see them as fake socialists, I see them regularly dig on Mamdani and any other DSA people

Lol yea they never stopped, but ofc an election is coming up so naturally they're saying it more and more

Tankies see that as a win, to them USAID and anything similar was just an "imperialism tool"

Or having masked secret police arresting and deporting whomever they wish with no due process?

They were totally criminals bro. Trust me bro. No, you can't see any evidence. And no, I won't bring them back. They're gone, bro, it's out of our hands now.

Vote in the primaries!
These people act like those don't exist. Everyone really needs to push for the progressive candidates before they are chosen as the party option. Then if that fails you have to compromise so it doesn't get even harder next time. We might have gotten lucky with trump being so unpopular, people are looking for a new person that at least sounds anti establishment. The next republican rep I really don't think will be worse than trump, so they could actually gain favor for the party if they win and enact change that helps some of the majority.

"Material conditions" are leftist-flavored "facts and logic." The actual concepts matter... but the people pounding the table about those phrases don't even know what they mean.

Would you rather be advocating for socialism under milquetoast progressives who ignore you - or under fascists who want you skinned for moving pamphlets?

Would you rather be fighting for easier name changes as trans rights - or debating whether married women get to vote?

Does any sane person honestly believe Kamala Harris would have handed Elon Musk a machete and pointed him at social programs? Or treated every federal institution like she bought them and they owe her money? Or bombed Iran despite this inevitable outcome?

Wouldn't your entire life be better, without Republicans in charge?

Organize outside of electoralism and don't support your "nicer" genocidal war criminals maybe?

Not performing permission for anyone to rule me never mind it's ineffective in changing anything.

I mean it is obviously. Just look how people are excusing everything Dems do.

DSA are not by and large socialists and it's not good to do either entryism or electoralism in general.

@mindbleach@sh.itjust.works summed it up perfectly

"Material conditions" are leftist-flavored "facts and logic." The actual concepts matter... but the people pounding the table about those phrases don't even know what they mean.

**Would you rather be advocating for socialism under milquetoast progressives who ignore you - or under fascists who want you skinned for moving pamphlets? **

**Would you rather be fighting for easier name changes as trans rights - or debating whether married women get to vote? **

Does any sane person honestly believe Kamala Harris would have handed Elon Musk a machete and pointed him at social programs? Or treated every federal institution like she bought them and they owe her money? Or bombed Iran despite this inevitable outcome?

Wouldn't your entire life be better, without Republicans in charge?

Not voting for the most leftist available candidate to you only makes the organizing you preach that much more harder. Unless of course you want the Tankie outcome, accelerationist bloodshed in the name of the revolution.

what are you going to do with the 20 minutes you saved not voting, ykno other than having your thumb up your ass and not starting the revolution.

It's the same Supreme Court, so yeah. Also, another Republican is going to win at some point, and as Joe Biden kindly demonstrated, electing establishment Democrats does fuck-all to prevent the Republicans from killing even more people

By all means, shit on the Democratic party and work to do better than them, but if you don't prefer them in a them-or-fascists race where the winners will be them or fascists, then what the fuck are you doing?

You can think Gaza is the worst thing since Germany in 1943 and still prefer not to add on Germany in 1937 at home. Wouldn't the world be better if Israel was our only problem?

they're against voting because democracy for what class, unless jill stein is running exclusively to be a spoiler in which case they are for voting, unless she can win in which case the electoralism is bourgeoisie again. sometimes the psl candidate is also acceptable because they also can't win. they're against all actually existing direct action for reasons as well. what could the pattern be

Because that worked out great last election? You can do more productive things if you have the balls for it, if you insist on not participating in elections.

Frankly the rise of dsa candidates in the US shows we at least have some grass roots energy equivalent to the right wing tea party movement.

Noted the left wing of the USA resembles a democratic socialist tm compared to the rest of the world.

That fucking sucks.

The court cannot issue an executive order. And people live in the now, not the future. We'll all die one day, but that doesn't mean we should act like we are doomed. Even four years can be critical, especially for a trans kid looking for access to puberty blockers. Lastly, not all Republicans pursue the exact same policies. There is a reason Trump is among the lowest-ranked US presidents.

Nuance. What a concept!

Of course it sucks.

It’s politics.

It’s designed to suck.

I don't really have a problem with people who do actual organizing and activism not voting

I see a line often drawn between voting vs [anything else]. Why? Voting is the bare minimum, easiest, lowest effort you can put into influencing policy.

Organizing is running a marathon; voting is tying your shoes. If you're going to put the time and energy into the hard stuff, why skip the easy stuff?

They're not mutually exclusive. Do both if you can. But even if you can't run the marathon, at least take the two seconds to tie your fucking shoes.

I'm not acting like we're doomed, I'm acting like our decisions now impact future events. There is a future, and short-term harm reduction is not worth long-term harm multiplication. We cannot settle for another weak and ineffectual conservative democrat. Joe Biden gave the average nincompoop no reason to vote blue in 2024.

Trump is wildly incompetent and unpopular. Imagine someone with an IQ above room temperature in the Oval Office. You reckon trans people would be doing better under President Mike Johnson?

you feel superior to people who vote.

it's not logic, it's about feeling better than other people. so is most of the dumbshit takes and rants you see from these people.

they think sitting around and feeling feelings is 'superior' to any action in the real world... and I guanentee you none of them have read marx or anything actually related to communism other than memes and watching influencers. especially if you go by all the ridiculous posts about 'how do i become a good communist w/o reading or making any efffort, just tell me a podcast i can listen to that will make me a magical expert/genius on the issue so i can feel smug and superior to everyone else'

why not just block the entire instance? it's what i did. much easier.

It simple they didn't find a candidate that represented them. I am half tunisian half canadian. I never voted in tunisia because nobody represent me. In canada I like NPD and vote foe them.

What I don't understand is why a politicians would listent to you if they know you will vote for them anyway?

I don't think too many should, there needs to be visible pushback against their crap for new users

I also don't because 1) I'm crossposting all good content to non-ml comms to boost activity in those areas and suppress the .ml versions and 2) I document things here so they can't do what they want to do in silence and subtlety like they like