when you see them contributing to rape culture

What, the grand total of zero times? I don't go to bars or clubs, I don't go to parties where there are an appreciable number of people I don't know. The social contexts in which I do interact with people I'm not close to are either in-passing where there's no way to make that assessment, or professional, in which case we're both under considerable social constraints and such behaviour is not likely to arise even from someone with such predilections. Yes, I realise that last sentence is spoken from a position of privilege, and that behaviour does arise and is a problem for those targeted by it, but it's outside my scope of awareness and I'm not going to interrogate my coworkers on the off chance it has happened.

I'm willing to accept that maybe back in highschool I wasn't as aware of these issues and may have let an instance slide here or there, but even if I did recall such an event that was more than two decades ago, and I'm not going to hunt down someone I haven't seen in twenty years to admonish them after the fact.

Though come to think of it, there was one instance of it in an online chat within the past few years, and I did say something, which led to them basically flying off the handle and getting kicked from the server, so there's that at least. I guess I'm one for one?

D'ja read'em?

Starting a post with an accusation of rape isn't really a great starting position, and frankly I find it disturbing that the default assumption is that it is likely I have pressured someone for sex at some point in my life. I have accepted a "not right now" as a no for as long as I can recall, and the idea that someone might actually suggest that "asking for consent ruins the mood" is, frankly, insane to me.

I did take a moment to reflect, and came up with nothing. I can think of one instance where I tried to initiate, but I felt my partner tense up before anything really happened. What happened next was I immediately stopped. She didn't even say no, but I knew she didn't want to continue.

I'm sorry your husband committed rape, and that you have apparently internalized the idea that all men are probably rapists to perhaps help accept that fact. I am not.

I looked at your links. No, obviously I didn't read three entire books in a couple of hours.

I'm also not saying it's not a real problem that exists, which seems to be the point you're trying to make. If it makes you feel any better I am willing to call out such behaviour if I see it happen. I just don't see it happen, because the people I regularly socialize with aren't assholes.

See, the thing is, you obviously didn't even look up "rape culture," or fully read my previous comments, because you'd know that rn you're trying to claim that you never see dominant values in society through your interactions with other men (apparently, you don't have any family).

I don't give a shit about the people who are more interested in maintaining their moral purity than actually participating in positive social change. You are primarily concerned with asserting that you're not a bad person for being complicit. Despite finding sexual violence "abhorrent," you're now actively engaging with rape culture by pretending that literally no men in your life say misogynistic shit ever or even misinformation they may genuinely not understand is harmful and are pretending that I've in any way said you have to approach random men with a prepared gotcha interview to challenge rape culture.

Yeah dude, totally, you seem like the kind of guy who is really willing to live up to his morals. Would you shut up now? I don't care about what you have to say besides, "sorry, I'll try to learn more about this."

Don't engage, the guy is a "woe-is-me" who is playing stupid about the topic.

I am asking, in good faith, what extra steps I am expected to be taking here, because yes, I am claiming that I don't associate with misogynists or people who promote such misinformation. If the actual answer is "read a bunch of books on the subject" then maybe that's what I need to do? But I find it extraordinarily unlikely that it will reveal that people I interact with are secretly misogynist in ways that I can actionably address.

Yeah dude, "you're projecting trauma" as a response to someone pointing out that these are values that are dominant in our society -- as I have said multiple times -- really shows how open you are to thinking about how your internalized values effects your participation in the reproduction of rape culture.

You know you are using the exact talking points we use to teach teens about rape culture, right? Like, word for word in some instances. Red flags all around for not an "aggressive" person, but more of a coercive, manipulative kind of perpetrator (something you see with a lot of "socialist" men who don't do the dishes). At this point, there's a high chance you've committed gender based or sexual violence with how you've been talking, because our culture literally socialized you to do it without even thinking and you're proudly saying "No, I think enough and have determined for myself that I'm not a problem." If you don't want to seem like the kind of person we teach people to look out for, maybe shut the fuck up and learn something.

I'm fairly certain you're disingenous, but I wanted to make sure this was here in case others followed the thread above and don't see someone else point out the issues here.

Those values are dominant in our society! If anything I've said has been construed in such a way that you think I believe otherwise then I apologise.

To be clear, rape culture is a real problem, and I do see evidence of that in society at large. I have no idea what I can do about it, as my own social circles are non-representative.

edit: Oh, and I do, in fact, do the dishes.

Clearly!

I get the idea you're not even buying what you're selling here with how defensive you got. I don't believe that you even believe you've never broken a boundary.

Truly, I don't give a fuck if you have, because I don't think fucking up when you're young makes you a bad person. You asked what else you can do, I said self-reflect. Maybe do that in private for more than 5 minutes. Don't report back.

My life is pretty much min-maxxed. Should things go my way, I will have no contact with them.

I'm going for something that I just explain as Solarpunk.

In my country, a bit more than half are.

However the point Im making is if I asked a random collection of young men here to identify which is which, most of them would get most of the answers wrong, and theyd argue over it.

Because theres basically zero education on the topic. Not exactly there fault per-se, Im moreso calling out the government for failing our youth on this.

Ill also note that most young women would also probably get a lot of the answers wrong too...

Fuck ya

I honestly do apologize. Feel free to ignore this since you said don't report back, but I wanted to reply after some more reflection regardless.

You're correct that I don't believe I've broken a boundary, but I also am willing to accept that I'm simply not aware of a boundary I've broken. Unfortunately I remain unaware. I hope you understand that I am unable to comment on things I'm not aware of, and for better or for worse that's simply where I stand right now.

For whatever it's worth, if there is some boundary I've crossed, I'm sorry for that. I want to emphasize that's not a "I'm sorry you feel that way" non-apology but a genuine remorse for whatever harm I've caused someone. I don't want to hurt people.

In addition to the general apology, I want to directly apologize for my closing paragraph about your husband and the suggestion that you had internalized some kind of rationalization for the situation. It was uncalled for.

I will not be further editing or removing any of my prior comments to cover up statements I regret, as I believe complete context is important for anyone who stumbles across this later.

Not expecting a reply. I hope you find other interactions more pleasant than this one.

I want to empathize with you because the issues you describe clearly do exist in some, probably most, societies and in large parts, but if you can't see it's legitimately sexist and generalized... I'm not sure what I could say to alleviate that bais for you. Like, it's just a simple truth that you're painting with far too broad a brush.

ah yes. when men invalidate women's experiences it's a societal problem. when women call them out it's sexist.

you don't see the dichotomy there?

I never said women cannot call out a man doing anything of that nature, but to imply that it is all men is being sexist, by definition. Surely you see that? It would be the same if I said all women do x, all men do y, all whatever do ______.

all men who are socialized male are vulnerable to this unless they address it. is that better for you?

go take this energy and put it towards addressing this in your peers. I guarantee it's there, and I guarantee at some point you've seen it. did you address it when it wasn't from your mouth and it was easier to ignore?

words on the Internet mean nothing. go outside, make a difference, so we can finally stop having this dumb fucking argument whenever a dude is asked to stop being a douchebag.

You have no right to demand of my time, nor assume such broad statements, and yes, I did address. I'm addressing it now with you, I address it. I don't know why you're choosing ignorance and hostility.

Word