I would absolutely try cannibalism, if I had consent from the person and they were going to die anyways, and it was prepared by a professional chef... And I had some salt in case it was too bland

Absolutely not consistent, I know some people who think manager/employee is terrible. You're kind of pushing your own narrative on this and assuming the general public feel the same

This comment is a sweeping generalization, and still qualifies as sexist. Being deliberately misandristic isn’t going to help anyone.

I'd say teach men that they can easily get love from women

Terrible does not equal rape. It can be bad while still being consentual.

By your own logic, that justifies canabalism if you're dead, you're justifying the rape of your corpse.

Hey, hey, hey. Don't equate cannibalism with that heinous shit

it certainly helps bring awareness to the fact that men are literally trained from birth to provide responses such as these to downplay women's experiences.

believe it or not, many men are not aware of this, and think they are being clever or playing devils advocate, when in reality, it aims to invalidate entire scenarios on a "technicality".

honestly if you think a proven statement like men invalidating women's experiences is sexist or is misandry you should probably take a step back and realize you're one of them.

This, or a way to get both men and women fighting over something. Like it gets such high emotions, hurt feelings, etc. when we should really just be talking about it like adults, and then there are people who will just make jokes about it. The weird thing about that is then there's this darker, disprespect (and sexual assault) of women that the incel community has, even to the point of filming public assaults to get internet clout.

Yeah, maritime survival, stranded in the woods, etc, it happens a lot. I'd bet that every life death situation regarding starvation always turns to canablism.

Most of those examples aren't rape.

Good news

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hufu_(novelty_item)

Armie Hammer has entered the chat

Great, now the manosphere is going to start advocating for cannibalism

No I'm Victorious Phoenix

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QoeKMD5dwnWBB6gHOFgY4uKJOXKg8CPGDu-dE5UsisQ/edit?usp=drivesdk

As a man who already thinks like this I feel like I'm stuck inside some kind of limbo where I'm complicit because I'm a man but expected to be silent because I'm not the type of man they're referring to.

The problem with both is consent.

Necrophilia is one of those taboos where the point is protection of the people still living, not the dead person.

You aren't complicit because you're a man, not to belittle your feelings though. I get uncomfortable around generalised terms in regards to gender issues, because I was always told never to do that, but it's something I similarly have to deal with.

Sometimes the conversation doesn't require your voice, and that's okay. Ideal even. If there are people with more skin in the game, they're more than welcome to have their say in my eyes.

You could like, make sure you challenge other men. That's kind of the issue, it's not that there's too many men who do this to require this response, but that the vast majority of men are more afraid of confronting other men than they are being silent about something they're morally apprehensive about.

Pretty sure that's the like, one of the main things that sexual violence prevention education and research targets is that men are overwhelmingly complicit in rape culture.

I mean, if you want it badly enough, you probably could. People have taken home amputated limbs before. I suppose you could put an ad out saying you would offer some large sum of money to anyone who will give you their amputated leg or something. And just tell them in advance you fully intend to BBQ and eat it. Just do your due diligence and make damn sure the limb is being removed for legitimate medical reasons and that you're not effectively paying someone thousands to chop off their own leg.

How about making it as unthinkable to men as it is to women, whatever that is? Why not hold men and women to the same standard? Women are not more entitled to safety than men are.

Hey, castration ain't so bad! Don't knock it til you've tried it! 🤣

I think the important thing is just the repulsion to the idea of cannibalism. You wouldn't think at a party about trying to drug someone so you could eat them, just the thought is horrifying. Literally the only situation it'd come to your mind as a possibility is one of the most desperate times.

That's how terrible rape as a concept should be. Literally bordering on psyche-breaking.
Doesn't matter how similar the concepts are, it's our reactions to the concepts that matters.

Oh, there could very well be a base drive for cannibalism. We can test ancient archaeological sites for cannibalism. When humans eat other humans, it leaves distinct traces in human waste that can be preserved in the fossil record. You can tell what an ancient human ate by analyzing their fossilized poop. And cannibalism was very common in pre-history, in societies all over the world. We're all descended from cannibals.

Worse still, it wasn't usually about food. It was usually done for power, war, dominance, and religious reasons.

Most of cannibalism throughout human history was not due to hunger. The Aztecs didn't build a skull pyramid because they were a bit peckish.

I agree, you see cannibalism at higher rates with starving people. However, there's literally no one who is dying of horny.

Hypothetically, if we were able to get the same level of repulsion in people, to the act of SA, then there'd essentially never be a scenario where an urge - strong enough to overcome that repulsion - could come about.

“What if theyre really into you but also really drunk, but asks you to have set with them?”

Here. Have Set with them.

My point is, your view is not the view of the general public. You're speaking like it is

I made it pretty clear in my original comment that the situation has potential to be toxic and terrible. That does not mean it counts as rape. I believe the general public would agree with that.

Just like most people don't like age gap relationships. If they are both adults and providing true consent, it isn't rape, even if the rest of society doesn't like it.

You're no Phoenix

Like the above comment I am also a man who already finds the idea of rape abhorrent, and always did. This is also true, as far as I am able to discern, of all my friends and people I regularly associate with.

But I'm still in the described situation, where the prevalent messaging implies that I am somehow complicit and not doing enough. Am I expected to interrogate my coworkers and people on the street just in case, so I can confront them on these opinions if they happen to have them? Clearly not, but there's still this unspoken pressure that I should be doing more, and I have no idea what that looks like.

edit: Making this comment was a mistake.

So if someone says "hey, we should rape some women" you think most (the vast majority in your words) men that don't consider raping women would stay silent? Like we don't have wives, mothers and daughters?

What a bullshit strawman.

Pretty sure that's the like, one of the main things that sexual violence prevention education and research targets is that men are overwhelmingly complicit in rape culture.

This is shocking if true with any kind of recent data.

Don't get me wrong I believe there was time this may have been true. Growing up in the 70s/80s there were definitely men that thought grabbing women's asses was funny and treated drunk women as consenting... the movies "Revenge of the Nerds" and "Pretty in Pink" have some terrible examples of what some of the norms were. But is this true today? I feel like things are much better now but perhaps I'm just naive.

You're not complicit just because you're a man. You can't take responsibility for billions of men.

The pigs can eat cake I need sustenance!!!

You shoulda seen what I used to say about kids. That's buried seven to twelve years ago on r/ShrugLifeSyndicate, which is where the CIA started making me into what I am today, which is a cop, I think...

Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Equal treatment for men and women should be celebrated. Everyone should be thought rape is wrong.

Not necessarily. One can consent to both. Moreso, there are edge cases. You get abandoned on an island with a dead stranger, I can find moral permissibility in eating them to survive; I wpuld want them to eat my body if reversed. I cannot think of a single edge case where raping a living or dead person is morally permissible. Like, this is basic philosophy; thinking. You didn't think. You just regurgitated an opinion. You're still a child. Fucking work on yourself!

My brother in Christ, the President of the United States of America is a convicted rapist pedophile part of an international human trafficking ring. Rape culture is not just a term that refers to "when you rape someone and other men don't stop you," it describes cultural norms that facilitate gender based and sexual violence, like slut-shaming, victim blaming, objectifying women at all, devaluing women's sexual pleasure. It also includes what is recognized as sexual violence. So, you mentioned someone grabbing a woman's ass, which positions sexual assault in a workplace; probably the most common setting in our cultural imagination besides somewhere random by a stranger. Sexual violence is more likely to come from someone you know closely, like a friend, family member, or romantic/sexual partner. Your assumption of what rape culture is is itself an example of how it contributes to misunderstandings of what sexual violence is and therefore helps facilitate it through that misunderstanding. I think it'd be a tremendous lapse in awareness to suggest those are not normal things in this culture just because a handful of libs say they don't like it that much anymore without doing anything to actually change that. Did you forget about fuggin' Gamergate?

Since a lot of sexual violence prevention curricula are designed with student bodies in mind, as in a high school or university setting, much of the research conducted to educate on sexual violence prevention is therefore dedicated to getting men to fucking stop doing it, because they are overwhelmingly responsible for perpetration of sexual violence and reproduction of that culture.

Some basic sources to educate yourself and any others who come across this:

Sills, Sophie, Chelsea Pickens, Karishma Beach, et al. 2016. “Rape Culture and Social Media: Young Critics and a Feminist Counterpublic.” Feminist Media Studies (Abingdon) 16 (6): 935–51. https://doi.org/10.1080/14680777.2015.1137962.

Henry, Nicola, and Anastasia Powell, eds. 2014. Preventing Sexual Violence : Interdisciplinary Approaches to Overcoming a Rape Culture. Palgrave Macmillan.

Fanghanel, Alexandra, and Alexandra Fanghanel. 2018. “How to Break a Rape Culture: Gendered Fear of Crime and the Myth of the Stranger-Rapist.” In The Routledge International Handbook on Fear of Crime, 1st ed., edited by Murray Lee and Gabe Mythen. Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9781315651781-29.

Refer to comment above, shut up otherwise.

Cool, refer to the sources I listed above. Yes, you are expected to fucking confront other men when you see them contributing to rape culture. If you're so disgusted by sexual violence, that should not be an issue for you.

I have to confront them all the time just to defend myself, I'm sure you could handle it.

Edit: Refer below, this guy kindly volunteered to demonstrate the exact kind of problematic behaviour I've spoken about. This is what dangerous men sound like, so be conscious that even people who are saying they don't want to do harm -- whether they mean that or not -- are still fully capable of doing harm. If someone's main concern is dissuading any liability, they're likely not very concerned about the fact that they've harmed someone.

This is what is really needed. Calling out others for bad or unhealthy behavior when it’s seen but don’t go looking for it.

I lost a former good friend because he violated his wife and separately cheated on her. All of our friend group kept being friends with him even after he admitted to the allegations.

I get forgiveness, but he doesn’t learn if he faces no consequences and no one is even willing to say “that’s fucked up man” or “I won’t be friends with someone like you”.

For lesser things, a “dude, that’s gross” or “wtf is wrong with you” goes a really long way.

You're not complicit just for being a man. You're complicit if you allow the behaviour in your presence. When dudes make offhand comments, call them out, even if it's your buddy and there's plausible deniability (which they use to avoid repercussions, social or otherwise).

Make your buddies feel shame for toeing the line or making shit jokes.
If you surround yourself with so many people who don't do that that you don't even have the opportunity to call anyone out, you're already doing a good job.

We also know that men who are more likely to be perpetrators of sexual violence are typically more misogynistic and anxious about their position in a perceived hierarchy (rape is not about sex, it's about power). So, yes, being perceived as less of a man for perpetrating or at the very least, not challenging sexual violence, is actually an effective deterrent.

A major problem is what you just described, which is that most men are actually quite insecure about challenging other men, and therefore often participate in social groups where that kind of deterrent is punished. There's two men in this thread already who were angered by the suggestion that they have to risk their social standing to contribute to sexual violence prevention, when they thought not being rapists themselves was all they had to do. It's also important to remember that this doesn't mean they haven't also committed some form of gender based and sexual violence, since they typically don't know what qualifies as that beyond overt sexual assault.

You need to understand just how pervasive it is, to the point that most men you know over a certain age (let's say 25) have absolutely raped someone by accident, with the word rape being defined as sex without explicit and enthusiastic consent.

Most rape is not ugly, most rape is not violent, most rape is clumsy and grey-area because someone pushed boundaries and the other person didn't communicate them or didn't feel safe saying "stop". Most men who have raped are not bad men, they were not properly educated on consent, hence the huuuge focus on teaching people about consent at a very young age. When everyone understands consent, we are able to prevent these situations.

Like fuck, there are still so many people out there who will say asking for consent "ruins the mood", which is something they were taught to feel by popular culture (movies, etc.), and this is how rape culture is perpetuated. We are all complicit until we are all serious about learning about rape culture and how it invades our media, and calling out our friends when they make stupid jokes that also perpetuate rape culture. Treating rape like it's all violent is also perpetuating rape culture, because it ignores all the times it is not violent, which is most rapes.

Rape culture is so much less obvious than the examples you've listed.

A great place to start is recognizing your own responsibility and recognizing that despite the fact that you find rape abhorrent, you have likely done it without knowing.

Recognizing that is a good first step.

I remember having this same conversation with my husband years ago and seeing how disgusted he felt with himself when he realized that pestering his highschool girlfriend until her "not right now" turned into a "sure okay" was, in fact, rape.

Realizing that good people are capable of rape, and that we are human, and that consent matters above all else is a place to start.

Realizing that even when a woman says "asking for consent ruins the mood" that she is internalizing rape culture and that it doesn't mean you should stop asking tor consent is a place to start.

Fuck, I used to say that when I was young and stupid, and I realize now that I was wrong and absolutely internalized rape culture. I now think asking for consent is very sexy now that it's recontextualized.

A good place to start is reflecting and recognizing all the ways you have perpetuated rape culture in your life.

Do not assume that you haven't, because you have. You may not have intended to, but we all have perpetuated it.

You are not exempt from this and assuming we are innocent is what keeps us from progress.

Even more fun, I was sexually abused by a guy as a kid, but I get to be constantly assumed and treated as the abuser rather than the victim.

It's absolutely not the goal, but I've just tuned completely out of any gender discourse online, because it feels like it's only ever shitty.

I voiced my displeasure, unfortunately, no one gives a shit what I think.

On top of that, I got rape threats against me as well, so yee.

Going for the endgame instead.

Keep doing it.

You think no one gives a shit what you think? They care more what you think than what women think, so push through the discomfort and keep doing it.

I don't know what the "endgame" is, but that discomfort is literally how rape culture is perpetuated. It's too uncomfy to call them out so they think nobody minds, and if you keep associating with them and not calling them out, they'll think you agree with them. Do you want that?

They dig their heels in when called out because they feel uncomfortable when called out, and they fucking should feel uncomfortable, so keep doing it.