What’s your favorite brand of BIFL cookware for induction?

I'm looking to upgrade my kitchen with industrial-quality pots and pans. After about a month of searching, I came to the conclusion that the most important requirements are:

1. 3-ply (or 5-ply). Fully clad (not just the bottom disc).
2. 18/8 or 18/10 stainless steel on the inside
3. 18/0 (or 200- or 400-grade) magnetic stainless steel on the outside.
4. Thick layers of metal (ideally >= 3mm of aluminum)
5. Strong, serviceable rivets on handles (not welded)
6. Handles on both sides of the pot (helper handle)
7. Handles have a hole in them on the end (for hanging)
8. Fits a 28 cm (or 11”) lid (easily replaceable standard size that’s interchangeable between metric and dumb units)
9. Top rim should either have a pour spout or flared lip (for easier pouring)
10. NSF certified

From what I’ve read, stainless steel isn’t a very good conductor (NIST says that aluminum transfers heat 16x better than stainless steel). But stainless steel is a better surface to cook-on, because it’s less reactive and won’t absorb flavours. So, 3-ply sandwiches a thick aluminum layer between two different types of stainless steel (nickle-free [eg 18/0 or 200- or 400-grade] on the outside, which – though less corrosion resistant -- is important for it to work on an induction cooktop) and either 18/8 or 18/10 on the inside.

5-ply is also a thing, but my research suggests that it doesn’t really matter how many layers. What’s more important is the thickness of the material.

And that’s why I’m here. Because, confoundedly, the manufacturers of these pots don’t seem to even know how thick the layers of their 3-ply cookware is!

Ideally I’d just find the technical specifications of their cookware on their website, make a spreadsheet, and then buy the one with the thickest material (or close to the thickest, depending on my trade-off between quality vs weight & cost).

But I’ve called maybe a dozen manufacturers, and none seem to know the specifications of their own cookware :(

So, fediverse, I ask you: does anyone know what the thickness of the layers in these manufacturer’s 3-ply cookware is? Otherwise, what’s been your experience? How do you feel about these brands? Is there some other one (not listed) that you prefer?

• Browne Thermalloy
• All-Clad
• Made-in
• Tramontina
• Cuisinart
• Other?

Edit: I should be clear that I’m specifically asking about 3-ply or 5-ply stainless steel cookware. This is for a community house, so I need something that can be (ab)used by housemates who don’t know or care for the seasonings on the pans. And I don’t want cast iron, because it’s more likely to break the glass-topped induction cooktop.

Is BIFL now just a euphemism for "expensive"? Buy anything steel or iron without nonstick coatings and take care of it, and it won't wear out. Most of my cooking stuff came from thrift stores or flea markets.

Aluminum won't work on an induction cooker, I'm pretty sure. Anyway, on a normal electric or gas cooktop, you can melt it by accident. So I'd stay away.

I don't have induction so can't report from experience, but I'm not sure how much heat conductivity matters on an induction cooker. The heat is generated in the pot itself rather than conducted up from a hot cooktop.

I think it doesn't matter much for regular cooking either, unless you're doing some gourmet shenanigans that require precision. I use stainless steel for some things and it's fine for my low tech purposes. Cast iron is similar, I think.

Carbon steel or cast iron for induction. Both need to be seasoned, but that's not a big deal.

Second the thrift store stainless steel and cast iron and have an induction cooktop. Much more economical than a brand new top of the line cookware. They still last a good amount of time (haven't had one fail yet) and IF they fail, replacing with another thrift store pan is also pretty inexpensive.

Just bring a magnet to the store with you. If it sticks to the bottom then it'll work with induction

These are the two answers

Just as a point for the OP: most stainless won't work on induction. Test it with a magnet before you buy. If a magnet won't stick to it, induction won't work.

I guess I should have mentioned that this is for a community house whose kitchen will be shared with others.

I'm afraid one of my younger housemates will break the induction glass cooktop with cast iron. And I certainly can't expect them to take care of the seasonings on the pans. That's why I was thinking (3-ply) stainless steel. It's more, err, forgiving

As long as there is a layer of magnetic steel, it will work fine on induction.

I don't think your gonna accidentally melt aluminium either, getting it up to 660c on a stovetop is a feat requiring a serious effort.

How are rivets serviceable, and what is wrong with welded?

Beware, a lot of "induction compatible" cookware just have a thin iron base attached to their non-magnetic pan.

The one's I've seen, that base isn't bonded that well to the pan, and generally warps a bit (making for a wobbly frypan) and finally, is often not the same diameter as the pan above meaning you've got a hot spot in the middle of the pan and cooler edges.

So yeah, as other's have mentioned, go for stuff that is magnetic, and test it all over not just in the middle of the base.

It is, but stainless doesn't work with induction. There are some stainless alloys that do, but they do rust and take more effort than true stainless. If a magnet won't stick to it, it won't work with induction.

I have all clad, but i hear nitrogen hardened steel is better. Cast iron does uneven heating from what i hear.

Also, if you're looking for something light and strong, carbon steel is your answer. It's still going to need seasoning, but it's a lot lighter than cast iron.

New rivets can be made with a rivet gun forever. You can also re-weld, but it's harder (and you're more likely to damage the pot if you don't do a good job welding it).

Which brand was it that warped? So we know to avoid them.

Do you have a link to a source with more info on the needed minimum thickness of the outer magnetic layer? I imagine there's a point of diminishing return, and I'd love to see some research showing the efficacy of various thicknesses of this outer magnetic layer.

OP, ignore this person.

Many stainless pots and pans work just fine with induction hobs - including lots of older stainless cookware from the years before induction hobs were popular.

Yes you can melt aluminum cookware by accident. Ask me how I know. Well you can probably guess.

A good stainless steel weld is VERY unlikely to ever break or need repair. My welded stainless pans are decades old.

haven’t had one fail yet

It it even possible for an uncoated pot or pan to fail, other than by melting? Ok I've had some handles come loose, but that's tolerable or probably fixable.

Ikea 365+ stainless is good value, induction-compatible, and IME lasts for decades despite abuse from careless housemates.

But the rivets in most pans aren't the same as the rivets in a consumer rivet gun?

Can I ask how you did it? I've used aluminium pans on gas and induction, never got it close to melting. The coating would have smelt awful long before it got close to melting.

Yeah, most likely the rivets holding the handle on to the pan are what fail

Calphalon

https://www.calphalon.com/cookware/cookware-by-material/stainless-steel-cookware/

Falk Culinair Copper Coeur

I haven't switched to induction yet, but these things are spectacular in evenness of heat and ergonomics.

Regular electric stove, the kind with the resistance coils. I left a pot on top and the contents boiled away and then a big chunk of the pot bottom melted.

No, but real rivets are cheap and available though special order.

Yeah I have an old farberware saucepan with a loose handle. I keep using it but may have to look into some hacky repair if it gets too much worse. There's a metal lug riveted to the pan and then the bakelite handle is somehow connected to the lug. I think it's the handle-to-lug joint that has gotten loose, but I haven't examined it closely to figure out what's wrong. I might try J-B Weld epoxy if I have to fix it. J-B Weld is supposed to be good up to 600F or so, and I think the top part of the pan (where the handle is attached) won't get nearly that hot.

Yep, as I said, there are stainless alloys that do work, but only if a magnet sticks. If it doesn't conduct magnetism, there's nothing for the induction circuit to act on.

Part of why you are having problems getting specs on cookware is because most companies just buy from factories. Most brands (in all industries) don't actually design their own goods anymore. This is the reason you can go to Amazon and find the exact same item with 20 different brand names on it.
Although I don't have any recommendations for you, because quality can change from model to model, I would say, stop looking for a brand to follow and look for an item that fits your needs.
Here is an interesting article on the mess this has created with "quality" brands.
https://www.worseonpurpose.com/p/your-cookware-got-worse-on-purpose

I wonder if you'd need a special tool for the "real" rivets. I have a loose handle on one of my saucepans and haven't yet carefully investigated how to fix it if it falls off, but putting in a stainless steel screw seems like a possibility. Heat resistant epoxy is another. I hadn't thought about riveting. Welding came to mind but I don't have the equipment for it so don't feel likely to go that route.

only if a magnet sticks

That's simply untrue.

Many stainless pans have an aluminium core. Aluminium isn't magnetic, but is very inductive.

Some stainless pans are made of 316 stainless steel. It is inductive, but not magnetic.

Gosh, you've posted this misinformation twice under the same OP. It's just not true.

Just upgraded our (old, non magnetic) Cuisinart for All Clad. They're both nice, zero complaints about the old set except for the not magnetic part. I wouldn't let my housemates (ab)use the All Clad. A new Cuisinart set would do just fine for far less money - $150 for a full set. Maybe add a carbon steel pan for eggs.

All-clad are great and they have factory sales from time to time. I don't know the specs on thickness, but my 10" All-Clad is heavier than a vintage 10" cast iron pan (but lighter than a new Lodge).

They're easy to keep clean. Anything baked on usually comes off with Barkeepers Friend, chain mail, or a combination of both.

The real rivets would need a press or something to install right? And you'd need to get food grade rivets, which is only going to drive up the price?

A ball peen hammer works to install. Jigs make things look nicer but the hammer is the main tool. Food grade rivets are cheap too.

In general, my advice would be to just buy what America's Test Kitchen and/or Alton Brown tell you to buy.

But since you mentioned "abuse by housemates," you should go for the cheaper Tramontina instead of the All-Clad.

Lodge cast iron. I have 2 pans from grandma and 1 from my mom. I also bought a Dolly Parton 12" for myself so we have 3 generations of cast iron. Nothing beats the longevity and cost effectiveness of cast iron.

I was recently gifted a Hexclad saute pan and it is not worth the hype. Potstickers and a fried egg have permanently left their mark.

I think we are thinking of very different rivets, the ones on my pans are definitely not hammerable. Fortunately, the rivets haven't come loose either, so not a problem yet.

I think I'm more impressed with your stove then :D

Induction? Cast iron. That is all. The glass cooktops are very sturdy unless intentionally damaged. If they were fragile my wife would’ve busted ours long ago.

We have a few stainless pots that work (check with a magnet). Not sure if the stainless ones are true bifl (the cast iron certainly is) but they’ve been going strong for about 10 years long with regular cooking and cleaning in the dishwasher (no not the cast iron).

I have induction and use cast. It's great. Better than any other material in my experience. There are nuts out there that make you think it's a cult or you need to do very specific things to clean it but it's actually really easy. I just wash it in the sink like normal and then put some oil back on it. Simple, good for induction, naturally non stick

Cast iron is great for induction IF you know how to use them together. To avoid cracking your pan, start the stove on a lower setting, let the pan heat, then raise higher if you need it.

The issue is thermal expansion. Induction cooktops can heat the pan faster than gas or thermoelectric, but only where the coil is (no heat passing up the outside of the sides). Cast iron conducts this heat relatively slowly, so the bottom of the pan heats and expands slightly while the sides (or parts of the bottom not directly over the coil) take longer to do the same. The thickness of most cast iron can exacerbate the issue, as even the top surface is expanding more slowly than the bottom near the coil.

Cast iron is harder (more rigid) and also more brittle than carbon or stainless steel, so this can lead to microfractures that grow larger over repeated cycles.

As long as you know to raise the heat slowly, they're a great combination. Hard learned lesson for me though - lost an antique 15" that was my main daily driver

I keep hearing this, and had the pleasure of using someone else's large, lightweight carbon steel pan for a while - it was a dream! Then I went to buy one, and all the new ones I can find are shockingly thick and heavy by comparison. I love my carbon steel wok, but just can't seem to find frying pans anywhere near as thin and light.

Any suggestions? Preferably in Europe. Stretch goal: welded rather than riveted handle. I have family members who aren't comfortable with my level of clean-up, and crust at the edge of the rivets seems to be a sore point.

Yes, actually! Uneven heat is the culprit. See my reply above about cast iron failure on induction. Very thin carbon steel pans can warp for similar reasons, and I would assume the same for large, empty aluminum pans on very high heat (though I haven't seen that reported. The solution in both cases is to start on a lower setting and raise the temperature gradually.

The warping may be why thin, round-bottomed carbon steel woks are easy to find but the same doesn't seem to be true of flat-bottomed frying pans.

I have a Demeyere Industry pan.

It's fully 5 layers of steel and aluminum with a welded handle.

No rivets as they get loose all the time. Plus I hate the fats and oils that get in there with no way to clean them. Plus utensils get caught in it when you're making thicker sauces.

They are also found in the commercial kitchen industry.

I've baked with it, fried in it, abused it petty hard, and never gives me an issue.

Might I suggest a strata carbon steel clad pan? Their normal pan (don't get their work) is stainless steel bottomed, aluminium cored, and carbon steel topped. You can season your pan and truly become attached to it; if you fuck up, you can just restart. As a bonus, it's as light as a normal pan instead of carbon steel or the chonky cast iron. Only bad thing is that the edge is unsealed, but that's really only an issue if you dishwash it. You shouldn't be dishwashing carbon steel anyways.

I think if you want BIFL, it has to have seasoning in some way. Even stainless steel pits (pitts?).

Even when I moved on from my cast iron to the above pan, I still use my old one at my pops place

Nvm just saw the part about housemates. Beware that most people that I know can only cook in non-stick, which is violently not BIFL

Not sure if they ship to you but I’ve had good experiences with Greenpan.us

I think there are two mindsets in BIFL communities that somewhat diametrically oppose each other. There's the "I'm tired of buying cheap crap that falls apart when I use it; recommend me an economical drop in that I can mildly abuse and it won't fall apart," and there's the "I have some money and want to spend it wisely on really nice stuff that my descendents will fight over because it's so nice and still going strong."

Obviously there are others and it's a continuum, but I think a lot of people talk past each other because they might recommend e.g. hugely expensive heirloom pans for your great grandkids to admire, when what OP wants is something that can take a beating from randos and still work fine or be recoverable. Or, conversely, someone else might be looking for that recommendation of beautiful sauciers to proudly have on display on their pot rack, and what they're recommended is crusty thrift-store lodges that they have to refinish themselves.