I for sure have... something. But it's not ocd. And I struggle with my life, but at least I'm a productive little worker bee 💖

🐝

lol you have no idea

I understand, I just felt you were stating things as if they're objectively true. Maybe I missed something. Have a good rest of your day.

I am also a bottom-right user. But browsers like Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser supposedly take care of javascript fingerprinting, at least if you check websites like amiunique.org. So I'm running out of reasons to disable javascript. What privacy reasons do you disable javascript for?

Y'all are running your PC's un-airgapped?

Bottom left text gives reasons that relate to security, which is also related to privacy. I don't trust arbitrary scripts, and I find it more convenient to simply disallow them. While css can theoretically be used to track mouse movements, that is typically done with javascripts, and I find that creepy af. I don't like the feeling that I'm being observed. I get enough of that whenever I go outside into this dystopic world.

So on that note, as I've said in some other comments within this thread, I prefer static pages from a UX perspective. Static pages feel comfy and safe, at least in comparison to the alternative. In contrast, javascripts tend to make the UX of sites worse in my view. So there aren't any compelling reasons for me to allow them most of the time.

It comes down to this: What do I gain by allowing javascripts? What I see is largely nothing. What do I lose by allowing javascripts? Comfort, calm, and a relaxed experience.

Burning off your fingerprints makes you far more identifiable then keeping them.

In this fucked-up world, it turns out that I end up blending in, just not with other people. Users who disallow javascripts are often mistaken for bots nowadays. We don't stand out, and so we're assumed to be bots. I think that if more people browsed without javascript it'd eventually be easier to distinguish between bots and people, and captchas could maybe die out.

My laptop is airgapped, that’s why I use WLAN

The fact that WASM is NOT a programmimg language, and that WASM is intrinsically sandboxed and has really granular permissions (through WASI).

Also, how do you expect that, for example, a videoconference site (let's say, Jitsi Meet) will work if you don't execute any client-side code? And I'm not saying that all client-side code is permisible, justified or good, but rather that not all the client-side code is unpermisible, unjustified or bad, as you seem to imply.

And if you do use FLOSS, that's really paranoid, even if FLOSS isn't perfect.

Why should my computer do the work? Server-side only

If it's a dedicated toolbar button I'm about to download it

NoScript is one of the oldest browser addons for selectively blocking/allowing scripts and some other things, and it's the only addon which comes preinstalled in Tor Browser. And yes, it has a dedicated toolbar button.

Hey, so there are a few threads I can't see from this instance due to defederations and I wanna respond anyway.

@Digit@lemmy.today
open dyslexia font?
nice touch.

Thanks. Yeah, it's OpenDyslexicAlta Bold. It felt like a good option for a meme font that was kinda different and maybe easy enough to read to make it useful too.

@Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe
That makes it easier for dyslexics?

Possibly for some, as @Ludicrous0251@piefed.zip said. I think it would probably be more beneficial for those who are introduced to it at a young age. Otherwise it takes some time to get used to it, and I did end up falling back to the fonts I had been using. But I do like OpenDyslexicAlta font and think it makes a good meme font, so yeah.

Okay so that's my response to the chain of comments quoted above. Sorry I can't give y'all upvotes due to the defederation, and sorry it took me so long to realize there were comments which were hidden from me. I do try my best to respond to everything that seems directed at me or which I can offer a worthwhile response.

The next chain of comments is much longer (it's a really good one too), and I'm thinking I'll make one or more responses when I get back online a while from now.

🩷

You could try hosting mlmym on a different PC in the same local network maybe? That would allow you to access it without needing HTTPS.

Also, how do you expect that, for example, a videoconference site (let’s say, Jitsi Meet) will work if you don’t execute any client-side code?

I never said that you should never run client-side code. Even OP doesn't say that (which is why they're running some sites in Whonix, they just really don't like it), and they're way more extreme about not allowing JS than I am.

The fact that WASM is NOT a programmimg language, and that WASM is intrinsically sandboxed and has really granular permissions (through WASI).

Interesting. Are the actual implementations of it sufficiently secure so far?

That's fair. My reasoning for avoiding Javascript is that I'm a bit paranoid about keystroke fingerprinting and mouse fingerprinting, and I honestly wonder if modern captchas are already using these techniques.

how so? Even if there's only 2 people in the world with burned off fingerprints, there's only one with your fingerprint

I tried it for a while. I got caught up in the 'privacy' crowd on Reddit and went all out for a bit. Even de-googled my Android phone at the time. It is inconvenient as fuck. And you're going to be spending more time tinkering and looking for workarounds and alternate software than actually ever getting anything done. All just to stop an advertising company from detecting what you clicked on, or for the website owner to never get any telemetry.

This is so on-brand with the meme, bravo. Also you seem very thoughtful.

Its not related to this but Tempermonkey amd scripts is insanely good experience.

de-googling your android can be pretty easy and convenient, nothing compared to disabling javascript IMO

Nah it's really not convenient when it comes to things like banking apps that get fussy about how customised your phone is. It's fine most of the time but you're going to be running into issues at inconvenient times when you don't really have the time to sit and play. Although I'm also talking a couple of years ago now, chances are things have improved.

disabling javascript

Yeah you're basically breaking everything. I did this before it was chic when I had a Nokia phone running Opera Mini lmao.

I wish there was a to crowdsource different filter rules. Like maybe have some that are like "safe sites where page is broken if js is disabled"

My impression was that the OP was about disabling javascript. I've also had issues with banking apps on CalyxOS and iodéOS, but overall could be worse

Im not super tech saavy, especially compared to the lemmy userbase, but every complaint about software just reads to me like whining about something you chose to install on your computer. You can just not use someone else's software, yes the mainstream software companies are fucking assholes and they will take all of your data and privacy in exchange for a subscription to their software. It's on you if you accept that deal.

Thanks. Yeah, it’s OpenDyslexicAlta Bold. It felt like a good option for a meme font that was kinda different and maybe easy enough to read to make it useful too.

This, I applaud. I aim similarly.

I never said that you should never run client-side code. Even OP doesn't say that (which is why they're running some sites in Whonix, they just really don't like it), and they're way more extreme about not allowing JS than I am.

I have to admit that I may have exaggerated a bit, but I think the point is still clear.

Interesting. Are the actual implementations of it sufficiently secure so far?

Yeah, at this point it's quite mature, and especially the implementations in languages like Rust, Zig, or Nim are particularly secure, although the classic ones in C or C++ are too, and there are great implementations for JS, TS, and other subsets of ECMAScript.

I see, thank you regardless <3

Yeah I've been running graphene for years. I can understand how the technically illiterate might have problems on rare occasion. Multiple stores can get confusing. Launchers are a thing. Nevertheless its nothing over the frustration I had previously carrying something I couldn't trust in my pocket.

I think not, Descartes.

JS disabled most of the times

Without js pages loads instantly

i really wish raymond would restart umatrix.. it was the most flexible script blocker. noscript's 'per site' permissions takes far too many clicks to do (some of) what umatrix does from one toolbar icon drop-down.

While technically correct, it’s a slightly shallow analysis. It’s like people complaining that companies put chemicals in the food, you could grow all of your your own food but it’s probably not feasible.

Those issues concern me too, and as I've said in another comment somewhere, while it's technically possible to do the same using css, it is actively used via javascripts. I remember reading an article a long time ago about how google's cursor-fingerprinting was able to accurately diagnose parkinson's symptons that were too subtle to detect any other way. And I don't think that google has ever made any attempt to inform such users. That is the character of google. That with their massive powers, they never bother to do good without profit or further control.

I got caught up in the 'privacy' crowd on Reddit and went all out for a bit.

Same.

Even de-googled my Android phone at the time.

I went from iOS and OSX to linux mobile and Qubes OS.

It is inconvenient as fuck.

It certainly can be, living my digital life on my own terms like this. And yet I persist.

And you're going to be spending more time tinkering and looking for workarounds and alternate software than actually ever getting anything done.

I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't feel that I'm held back by FOSS. I feel strengthened by the wide array of free software available to me. I have no use for anything from google other than their free noto fonts.

All just to stop an advertising company from detecting what you clicked on, or for the website owner to never get any telemetry.

It's far beyond that. From the moment I began my journey into understanding and attaining privacy, security, and freedom, I was challenged. It was as if the world itself denied me the right to walk that path. And so I persisted.

I will continue to make decisions for myself based on what I want and what I'm willing to sacrifice. Sites which require javascripts aren't even a sacrifice. I do not like them. I do not value them. I lose nothing by avoiding them. I have rare exceptions, and those are handled in disposable qubes.

The world has hardened me into defiance in many ways, and I won't be bullied into compliance by corporations.

I have a brand??! 🫨 (seriously tyvm 🩷) I'm currently going through my notifications and responding to stuff before using another qube to find that other chain of comments (and any new ones too). I am pretty obsessive ^^' (and maybe trying to show more of myself here in the hopes that people can truly see me when I say things that matter)

Nah it's really not convenient when it comes to things like banking apps that get fussy about how customised your phone is.

I don't trust banking apps, and I have absolutely no desire to install software that is so controlling.

Yeah you're basically breaking everything.

Sites which are non-functional without javascript are already "broken" in my view. So I simply don't use them.

I did this before it was chic

Is it though? Most people tend to try to talk me out of it. There seem to be lots of people who view it as unacceptable, and I've actually been bullied about it on a few occasions by people whom I'd thought were friends. I've learned to be defensive as a result, but that can come across the wrong way sometimes. I'd certainly rather it be chic than what it currently is, though I'm glad the comments in this thread have remained civil and generally positive.

(I spent a long time typing that last paragraph and debating about whether or not to include it in this comment. Hopefully it's fine.)

I'm confused (happens a lot). Is your comment responding to the meme or to some other comment? If the former, I am even more confused, since the meme isn't complaining about anything at all. It's poking fun some of the ways people view the web.

You can just not use someone else's software

That is what I am doing when I deny a site to run scripts on my computer, yes. And I love that I have the ability to make that choice.

yes the mainstream software companies are fucking assholes and they will take all of your data and privacy in exchange for a subscription to their software

lol yes. That's why I tend to avoid them and their products/services.

It's on you if you accept that deal.

Well I do still find it fucked-up that they prey on unsuspecting people who are ignorant of what's being done to them, including especially kids. It's not on them. They don't deserve the bad things done to them by the surveillance corporations. They can't be expected to know and understand.

So you think, therefore you do not exist?

I was actually tempted to respond to your first comment in this chain about existence/nonexistence, that knowledge doesn't exist, that it can't exist, that we can't presume to know anything, and that we can't presume to know that we think, which therefore would suggest that it's possible we do not exist. But I held back from going off about seemingly nonsensical existential stuff here...until now

I tried using the web again last night with a browser extension that toggles off JavaScript. Out of like 8 websites I tried to use, literally all of them were broken.

So it's not even just convenience. It's that practically no one is building websites to work without JavaScript. I think that sucks, but I cannot change it by just avoiding most websites in defiance.

I don't know what websites you're using that still work without JavaScript, but they're in the minority from what I can tell.

I don't trust banking apps

Yeah, even banks are something that's forced onto us, that you actually just can't live without in the current system. I also tried fighting it for a bit but the bank I'm with is trying to eliminate ATMs and making it really difficult to do online banking the old school way. And afaik, other banks are trying to do the same now. Just a matter of time before a vanilla smartphone is as much of a requirement as a bank account itself.

I spent a long time typing that last paragraph and debating about whether or not to include it in this comment

Yeah I was honestly just making a joke about the chic thing. It's definitely not even close to mainstream. I really love your passion for this though lol. And I agree with the cause. Glad you stuck it out.

How tf do you people use the web with JavaScript disabled? Almost all websites stop working

Just a matter of time before a vanilla smartphone is as much of a requirement as a bank account itself.

That's a really sad thing for a people to allow to be done to them. Like, idk about other people, but I'm never buying another apple or google product for the rest of my life. I think it'd be really weird if that became a death sentence, in which people like me could no longer access their own money to pay for necessities like food.

Yeah I was honestly just making a joke about the chic thing.

Oh I know. I liked that it gave me an excuse to say that stuff in response though, and I was uncertain if I should make such a serious response to a joke. But I went for it cuz why not, lol.

I really love your passion for this though lol. And I agree with the cause. Glad you stuck it out.

tyvm for the appreciation 🩷

Those are websites I don't want to use. As I've said in other comments, sites which break without javascript are what I consider broken sites. And I don't like to use broken sites.

Almost all websites stop working

Another way of saying this: Most websites are broken and not worth accessing.

Like, have you seen the web? Most sites suck. lol. The good ones don't bully/coerce me to change my behaviour.

practically no one is building websites to work without JavaScript. I think that sucks

I legitimately believe that most websites suck, and that is one of the reasons. If I enable javascript. I still find that the vast majority of sites suck.

I cannot change it by just avoiding most websites in defiance.

We cannot change much in this world. I don't believe that I'm changing things by avoiding these sites which I don't like. I can hope that more people will realize the same things I do and join me in avoiding such sites, but without numbers there's nothing to be gained except personal comfort in the moment.

I don't know what websites you're using that still work without JavaScript, but they're in the minority from what I can tell.

Well yeah, cuz (imo) most sites suck, lol. But even though they're in the minority (like me, lol), there are lots of good sites which work very well without javascripts, like distrowatch, duckduckgo, feditrends, invidious, lemmy (for the most part), librey, mbin, redlib, rimgo, searxng, wikipedia, and lots of smaller niche sites. Lots of news sites are also pretty accessible, especially the ones that work with firefox reader mode. So, that list covers multiple options for search engines, fediverse platforms, mainstream social media frontends, wikipedia (and various other wikis on totally different sites), and lots of news & informational sites.

Some sites that don't work quite as well are able to be fixed by simply switching from from "Basic Page Style" to "No Page Style" with Alt+v Y N (Menu -> View -> Page Style -> No Page Style). Lots of sites which appear totally blank can be fixed with that method. Granted, they don't look so good, but the information is accessible. But that's an example of a not-so-good site which is helped by disallowing javascipts and correcting the page. The truly good sites don't require fucking with them like that.

So anyway, yeah. idk. I don't see the issue. The sites which don't work are the sites I have no interest in using. Allowing javascripts doesn't tend to make them better in my view. And I think the stuff that legitimately needs scripts are better accessed as standalone apps (like matrix and other instant messengers which support end-to-end encryption). I think it's better to use FOSS apps which have been reviewed by OS maintainers and others than to blindly allow sites to execute scripts through a browser.

But again, this is all just my perspective, my own experiences and opinions shaped from them. We each walk our own paths and have our own wants and needs, along with our own likes and dislikes. I just hope I'm able to be better understood by others who otherwise would have no idea why I and some others have chosen this path for ourselves.

(also, sorry if my walls of text are annoying.)

Haven't used umatrix so can't really say anything