One thing that's really nice about pi-hole is that it gives a window into your network, allowing you to easily see dns requests as they happen, while also organizing them into useful charts and graphs.

My wife loves our pihole setup so much I was forced to setup VPN access to the home network so she could block ads while traveling. Now our oldest daughter wants me to setup pihole for her house.

I'm currently testing just outright blocking all scripts through uBO, and to be honest it is not usable. I will use it for a little longer, then for sure disable it. A lot of websites just refuse to load (thanks, SPAs), and those that do often have little interactions that break, thus making the pages hard to use or even outright unusable.

To give some examples for those that haven't tried this: images may refuse to load (js based lazy load implementation), dropdown menus almost never work, search option usually doesn't work (and if it does it's only because it goes to a different page, which is fair), comments probably won't show up, pretty much anything "live" won't work. Oh and let's not forget the captchas and all the proof-of-work blockers.

For me the only really interesting part about this experience is that imgur refuses to load, even if you have a direct link to an image.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh you are kinda late on this idea

The company I worked for used to use SSR which was fine but the web scraping was relentless and the "free" thing we offered was relatively computationally expensive. Eventually we moved to SPA and bought into the CloudFlare protection racket. This didn't stop it of course but it made the low effort scrapers have to use a browser and hopefully bumped their costs us The advent of the LLM crawlers has made everything worse as well.

We got a bunch of complaints when we moved to the JS only site saying we were ruining the Internet and while I didn't disagree the practicalities make it a requirement.

To give some examples for those that haven't tried this: images may refuse to load (js based lazy load implementation), dropdown menus almost never work, search option usually doesn't work (and if it does it's only because it goes to a different page, which is fair), comments probably won't show up, pretty much anything "live" won't work.

All of those things work perfectly on non-broken sites like mbin instances. As far as captchas, I refuse to do them, as I don't consent to being used like that.

For me the only really interesting part about this experience is that imgur refuses to load, even if you have a direct link to an image.

imgur.com/something -> farside.link/rimgo/something

Not all of the rimgo instances work, but some do.

Edit: Well apparently farside has been shut down.

Okay I just did some cursory research and it doesn't sound simple. Is it just installing qubes-whonix and creating a template (I'm guessing a yaml config or similar)?

As far as sites with JavaScript being "broken", that one puzzles me. I have tried turning off JavaScript in the past and probably 70% of websites became fully non functional. That shouldn't be the case, but it often is, and my impression has been that this has gotten worse, not better. I'm a web developer and no one talks about progressive enhancement anymore and frankly my coworkers have mostly thought it's silly to even try to support users who turn off JavaScript.

We got a bunch of complaints when we moved to the JS only site saying we were ruining the Internet

From my perspective, sites which move to javascript-only cease to be publicly accessible and essentially remove themselves from the internet. I do understand the necessity to do something about the scrapers, but going javascript-only is basically death of the site.

It showed up as a blank comment for me, which also felt appropriate.

Okay I just did some cursory research and it doesn't sound simple. Is it just installing qubes-whonix and creating a template (I'm guessing a yaml config or similar)?

During the installation of Qubes OS, you can select a checkbox to have Whonix templates and qubes automatically installed. After installation, you can simply click a launcher to start an app like Tor browser in a new disposable whonix qube from the disposable whonix template. It really is that simple. Installing Qubes OS does take a while though.

As far as sites with JavaScript being "broken", that one puzzles me. I have tried turning off JavaScript in the past and probably 70% of websites became fully non functional.

Yes, those sites which become non-functional without javascripts are very much broken.

That shouldn't be the case, but it often is, and my impression has been that this has gotten worse, not better.

Yes, much of the web is broken. On a related note, much of the web is infested with malicious ads and trackers.

I'm a web developer and no one talks about progressive enhancement anymore and frankly my coworkers have mostly thought it's silly to even try to support users who turn off JavaScript.

That's a shame. And yeah, those are basically just dead sites. If they're non-functional then there's really no point for them to exist.

As the web continues to devolve, with a growing graveyard of dead sites (and an increasing prevalence of malicious scripts), I hope that more people wake up to the reality that this is bad. It's similar to the dead-end that is google's android. Eventually they'll pull it away and leave a lot of people scrambling for their next option. I think the modern web will go through a similar transformation one day. I hope so.

I will give qubes-whonix a shot, you have convinced me!

There are certain functionalities that cannot be done without JavaScript. In my perfect world either no one would abuse JavaScript with ads and other shitty design choices, or at least I'd have an easier time with toggling it off/on. For now I'm leaving JavaScript on because it's simply far too inconvenient otherwise. Browsers are pretty good about preventing actual harm if you have UBO installed though.

Out of curiosity, what harm are you concerned about JavaScript doing with an ad blocker and while loading sites within a container? That seems extreme to me.

It's also just practicalities of the industry. You can write interactive elements on a site with minimal JS and some guys blog which could just be an MD file shouldn't need 10mb bundles of JS. However when you do need to shift more in to the application on the web side of things and you need front-end developers it's far cheaper and easier to source spa devs, there is just more of them.

Does this comic use that dyslexic font? If so, nice touch.

I'm a rooster illusion

Yes, OpenDyslexicAlta Bold ^^

I will give qubes-whonix a shot, you have convinced me!

You definitely shouldn't rush into Qubes OS. If you're seriously interested, I'd recommend checking out videos and reading about it so you can understand it a little deeper.

Out of curiosity, what harm are you concerned about JavaScript doing with an ad blocker and while loading sites within a container? That seems extreme to me.

Besides that fact that javascripts can be used to track and profile users, they also make the user experience of sites worse. I love static pages. Sites that require javascripts are the polar opposite of that. Useless blur effects and other "features" can cause pages to be significantly slower than static pages, and I absolutely hate it. I should be able to scroll smoothly and click buttons once the page has loaded, and I should be able to keep pages cached indefinitely. With javascripts, scrolling can often be laggy, buttons can appear and disappear in odd ways, and pages can be automatically reloaded without my consent, causing lots of frustrations. I cannot understand how anyone prefers browsing the web with javascripts. They are a fucking cancer, like 99% of the time.

Do you exist?

seductive tortoise is a rooster illusion?
🫦🐢🟰🐓❔️
idk what it means but i'm fascinated

Wasm seems like a good step towards a better web, and still is something really niche AFAIK.

I hope that it becomes standard, because is way more secure, and of course more performant than JS.

I do even think that the HTML+CSS+JS triad (and its single components, too) are a historical bad design decision, a HUGE one, and should've superseded.

On a scale from two to seven, how seduced are you? And which side is the seduced one?

Short answer: studies are limited and results are mixed but there's little to no peer reviewed evidence to suggest it provides much benefit, that said, people seem to like it, so do whatever makes you happy.

lol, well i do love the odd scale, but there is a lack of emojis too, so i suppose i'd have to say about 3π/2

And which side is the seduced one?

good question :p

I guess I prefer the Unix philosophy of doing things:
Have a bunch of combinable small programs each being dedicated to a single function and doing that well instead of large complex monoliths.

That's a very good rating, and quite irrational!

When it comes to browser addons, it is generally recommended to have as few as possible in order to reduce attack surface, since a higher number increases the chance of having one that becomes compromised. It's especially relevant with browser addons because they tend to have lots of capabilities/permissions and can therefore do lots of damage.

i can also be quite irrational, in the ocd kinda way

I don't do that on weekends, and I end those days in even step counts.

Not for this dyslexic.

I tried it for a little while, a while back, but went back to the fonts I made a long while back.

are those meant to be ocd jokes, cuz I don't understand the first one ><

I hear you on qubes.

RE: js, you're talking about the web as if it should only ever be what it was first conceived of: documents. In reality now it's used for full on software applications. It's not just used for animations and polish (and the shitty things you mention specifically), it's also used for dynamically updating the UI. A world you speak of would mean much worse order forms, paperwork for doctors, etc. I mean you do you, but you can't just not acknowledge that dynamic updates of a UI are better than filling out a long form then getting back "invalid data, you selected this and entered that, start over". It's literally useful.

The tracking concerns are mostly mitigated by vpns, ad blockers, and private browser features. I understand there are many flaws and issues I'm glossing over, but for the most part, the average person can just use those things, then opt to close the tab of a horrible website like you're describing.

tldr; you may prefer static documents, but modern society is built on forms and other types of vital apps, which would inevitably be worse without javascript.

I don't know anymore, the heat cooked my brain thoroughly 🫩

But it may be I'm a little obsessive during the week while working, and during the weekend I tend to do nothing. My apartment is a mess. Selective? Dunno.

Hi, question, my own website pretty much only uses JavaScript in order to correctly display a list of my blogposts without me having to manually update the html. I did really want a way to have this without JavaScript (or backend services like PHP, I'm still hosted by neocities). Is there?

I am actually less-knowledgeable than you on these kinds of things, as I've still not yet setup my own services and know next-to-nothing about the dev part of web-dev. I have no real experience yet. The things I know come from a user perspective. Sorry to disappoint.

i'm still slightly confused. are you saying you have ocd or that you can relate to it? cuz like, it can be very selective, or like on-and-off when it comes to triggers and releases of the tensions. idk if that's the best way to word it but whatevs.

don't forget to drink lots of water 🚰 (which i coincidentally have a hard time remembering)

Really readable, love it. <3

I did web Dev when that was how sites worked, and they worked fine. No, it was never live updating, but the errors could be corrected and resubmitted just fine. I don't use QubeOS but this post has me intrigued.

No, I don't think I have it. But I do like clean code and architecture, and I do want to make sure everyone can read it. And some of my coworkers think I'm obsessed with it.

Yes, me too. And then in the evening I start getting headaches and remember I haven't had anything to drink half of the day, start gulping down water like a donkey and have to pee half of the night.

In reality now it's used for full on software applications.

I think software applications are better made as actual applications instead of browser-based web-apps.

it's also used for dynamically updating the UI.

It might seem useful on the surface but is prone to the same sorts of breakage and annoyances I was talking about.

A world you speak of would mean much worse order forms, paperwork for doctors, etc. I mean you do you, but you can't just not acknowledge that dynamic updates of a UI are better than filling out a long form then getting back "invalid data, you selected this and entered that, start over".

That's an interesting example, because that's happened to both of my parents within the past few months from two different healthcare-related sites. The javascript elements frustrated them more than me, since they didn't understand why certain things weren't working, and I had to figure it out for them. And there were a few times when we had to start over due to the sites being poorly made.

That's really what I see in this reliance on javascripts, corner-cutting which causes problems. Properly-configured sites work better, and the ones reliant on javascript tend not to be.

I would prefer static order forms so that I can have the entire form and fill it out before submitting, while retaining a copy so that if there were issues I could more quickly and efficiently resubmit with the corrections.

Some people might prefer the dynamically updating UI stuff, but except for live chats I can't see a good use for it that static pages can't do better. And I think live chats are better in non-web apps which support end-to-end encryption anyway.

The tracking concerns are mostly mitigated by vpns, ad blockers, and private browser features.

The most useful and efficient private browsing feature is the ability to disable javascripts. Using vpns and ad-blockers protects against very specific vectors of surveillance, while javascripts allow a diverse set of surveillance capabilities, so blocking them protects against several forms of surveillance. And with more people disabling javascripts, we all blend together better.

you may prefer static documents, but modern society is built on forms and other types of vital apps, which would inevitably be worse without javascript.

Modern society is also built on ignorance, conformity, and exploitation, all of which make javascript-based sites more dangerous and prone to issues. It's the easy answer thrown at every problem, like "a.i." and is similarly dangerous.

So you're saying all of this as though "on the surface" is all I've ever considered and have never tried to do what you claim to be the only acceptable way to do things. It is only your opinion that dynamic UI elements aren't worth it. They particularly help with forms. Conditional data in forms aren't something I just made up, it's a legit use case. Again I've tried your way and I lasted less than a day. Very poor experience.

the thing that characterizes disorders is that they get in the way of life, so technically if your obsessiveness is only productive and not a hindrance then it wouldn't be categorized as a disorder. but i do wonder about that sometimes. cuz like, what if there were someone who very clearly had ocd or adhd but no other peculiarities and somehow was able to manage it even though it was quite obvious? just feels like we should probably have other terms for such things beyond the rigid definitions we currently have...(end of random mini-rant)

i am sometimes like this too ^^' except i rarely get enough sleep anyway

What makes WASM more secure than JavaScript? I'd think that the main issue with JS is that it's a programming language that's running on the client-side, not that it's specifically JS.

A good option are static site generators like Hugo.

I was talking about my own experiences. We can agree to disagree on what is a better user experience, as it's inherently subjective. I can't think of a site I've come across that was made better by javascripts, from my own perspective and experiences. I have always been let down and frustrated by such sites and always relieved to find static sites.

It is only your opinion that dynamic UI elements aren't worth it.

Yes. And for all of the reasons I've given, I stand by my opinions on javascripts. You're free to disagree. I wasn't trying to convince anyone, just sharing my experiences and opinions on them.

Sorry if I came across as dismissive of your experiences and opinions.

Yeah, and I hate it. I heard there are people who aren't tired the whole time! Can you imagine?

Another option is to point your DNS to one of the public ad blocking DNS servers.