Good. I hope it goes to trial, and they show that the monopoly Google is unfairly fucking with search results, as we all know they do, and some sort of regulation eventually comes from it.

They actually have a decent case here.

They've been a band with a trademarked name for 25 years. Netflix used that same name as part if the movie title. The band can show measurable harm to their trademarked brand, by citing Google search results for Demon Hunter.

I can't imagine Netflix would change the name of the movie, but paying the band for the damage to their trademark, and compensation for having to rebrand and trademark a new band name is a reasonable cost of success for Netflix.

In short, it isn't very Oniony

The thing they have to fight though is that when you register for a trademark, it doesnt apply to every sector.
Apple cannot for example and sue farm conglomerates for using the word apple on their actual apples. They do not hold the trademark in terms of produce.

For example, Nintendo lost a trademark to a supermarket in I think costa rica named "Super Mario" (it was a supermarket owned by a guy named mario), because Nintendo did not own the trademark rights to supermarkets(however they held one for food products branded it, so the same supermarket could not name their home branded products super mario)

Its a matter if the band holds the trademark for movies, as the band in the show itself is not called Demon Hunters (its Hunter/x)

I wonder if using just Mario for the food would be fine.

Go to Super Mario's and then get Mario's lasagna!

Netflix didn't give the movie its title, how do you figure they are liable at all?

Even if the movie had been a Netflix production, how is netflix liable for the behaviour of a third party algorithm?

I’m concerned that children may have been exposed to Christian “metal”. That is a traumatic experience that can ruin your enjoyment of metal, rock, and live concerts in general.

First names literally cannot be trademakred for living beings, but they can for commerce purposes so long as said commerced entity doesn't also attempt to sue Mario for also using his born name on a non-trademarked product.

I dont understand what you mean by the so long as part?

The title is a little misleading, Google searches aren't involved, that was colour added by the author

The movie title is referring to a fictional band, so even if you google “demon hunters band” you’re almost certainly going to get K-Pop Demon Hunters nowadays. I wouldn’t even know how to search for them and reliably get them to show up.

…well except this news story has gone viral so now they DO show up on top. The internet is weird man.

A notable high-profile legal defeat over first name usage involves reality star Kylie Jenner losing a trademark opposition against international pop singer Kylie Minogue.

Basically, the name Kylie is perceived by the public as a first name, NOT a brand and therefore is unenforceable in a court of law. They can continue with the trademark all they want, but their limited to only suing other companies, not humans using the name.

search engine SEOs are a separate issue than trademarks though. there isn't any law that im aware of that requires search engines to be neutral on how searches are organized (or even if something shows at all). If Demon Hunter wants to fight against not being able to be found, theyd essentially for example, be fighting against every corporate who uses DMCA powers to force google to remove some links from being indexed.

Demon hunter actually had some bangers back when I was in highschool

ah, gotcha. Thanks!

Netflix is the distributor. They do approve the title it's sold under.

It's not about the search rankings directly, that's just a signal of the effect of the trademark dilution for the band. It's proof of the damage.

The thing they have to fight though is that when you register for a trademark, it doesn't apply to every sector.

Absolutely true! Which is why it's good that they're both in the entertainment sector.
And I'm sure it's a non zero percentage of people who do think the fictional band is called Demon Hunters. But that may not even matter. There is a lot of overlap, being both in entertainment, and about music and bands etc. Hell, both are even about actual demons! This is a Christian metal band after all.

Please elaborate on how Google is changing the search rankings. I've worked with Google SEO for decades and I've never seen or heard of this. I've only seen people try to outsmart the system, and then years later are blacklisted for doing shady stuff.
Nothing in the article even mentioned Google.

But I've never heard of Google manually changing rankings. So you're saying there's a conspiracy to rank a Christian metal band from 20 years ago lower than a newly released movie/series with a similar name. Which just happens to be the most watched movie on Netflix.

The system seems to be working exactly as intended. Fresh original relevant content to the top rankings.

Why would someone expect the opposite? Why do you think Google is involved at all?

I see what you mean and I understand how it's more serious than it sounds as first. However, a band shouldn't be able to lay claim to every version of demon hunter in media. Will they go after Wow for the class named such? How about the various animes with some variation in their title? Sure they can protect brand in a musical space, but that extends over to movies? When the movie title quietly literally describes exactly the protagonists?

You're right. They might be able to win this case, but shouldn't.

Honestly, no one was searching for this trash band before. I guarantee that this has at the least given them more exposure. This lawsuit is entirely performative (it's needed to maintain trademark).

I have no love for netflix or it's terrible movie, but if it hurts some shitty christian band I have a real hard time being upset.

They're not suing Google though right? They're suing Netflix.

The thing is a trademark can’t trademark something “generic”.

Like you can’t trademark “chocolate dreams” ans a name for a band… and the go after some one that uses the phrase “chocolate dreams” for an unrelated movie.

Because no one is likely to confuse the band for the movie.

By using the old ways of search fu.

"Demon Hunter Christian Rock -pop -k-pop -k-pop"

Absolutely agree. They shouldn't be able to go after every use of demon hunters. And they aren't. They're only going after the one that's caused actual demonstrable damage to the use of their trademark.

Isn’t Christian metal just lead paint?

It’s hilarious that you use Apple as an example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

I feel really bad for the mom that spent $500 for her kids to see huntrix. Poor kids must have been so disappointed.

The risk the band took when naming themselves behind a concept. Irrespective of their personal harm, reaching across mediums to claim the name from a movie is the same as reaching to a video game. The concept of hunting demons is exponentially older than this bands formation in 2000. Hell, the Abrahamic demons they sing about aren't even in the same mythology as Korean shamanic demons. The band should not get to lay claim all these different interpretations from their name alone. This is even more egregious than Buc-ee's sueing any store with a cartoon animal logo, since at least they are both stores selling physical goods. Demon Hunter the band can't even muster that much of a claim.

Well see how this plays out. While I'm definitely not rooting for Netflix, I am decidedly rooting against cross genre, cultural and medium trade mark overreach.

It does appear to have confused actual "morons in a hurry", so yeah, maybe.

Sosume

That's the thing, these guys are definitely dining out on the confusion. No "Christian metal" band is realistically charging $500 for vip tickets. Especially considering they only sold 600k records in the last 25 years and over +12 albums. They would be lucky enough to be hitting the state fair circuit.

What search engine do you use that respects that type of search now? I’ve found that for years now Google just ignores the -pop or sometimes just ignores the “-“ and adds the thing I’m trying to avoid directly to the search query.

I think they are or did also sue Apple Theaters even tho Apple Theaters was operating long before Apple TV.

It’s like the Buc-ees gas station suing an underwear company because they had a squirrel logo (Buc—ees logo is a beaver).

...idk fellas, ya might want to just leave this one to the Satanists. Stick with the Gregorian chanting and call it a day. Also stop fucking altar boys.

You are right, but this isn't a video game versus a grocery store chain comparison here. It's a real life band vs a movie of a fictional band. The question of trademark infringement is not necessarily even about direct competition or intentional use. It is about whether a reasonable consumer of their product might confuse the two names/logos.

Were the movie just about some typical warriors fighting demons and otherwise just sharing a similar name, I doubt that they would have much of a case due to lack of overlap. But as the film is about a band (even if the band itself has a different name), and the actual soundtrack for this fictional band is immensely popular and carries the film name, and they're selling live shows with the artists who created the actual music under the same name. I think they could make a really good case about consumer confusion.

Edit: They even demonstrate actual consumer confusion that has already occurred in their court filing.

To prove their point, included in the filing is an email from a person who spent $500 on top-tier tickets to a Demon Hunter concert in Albany, thinking they were purchasing admission to a KPop Demon Hunters event for their children, aged five and six.

Yeah. Google started ignoring you more and more with it over the past like 5 years or so, but duckduckgo still uses it correctly.

The band should not get to lay claim all these different interpretations from their name alone.

Which is exactly what they're NOT doing. They had a name that was working for them for 25 years. They never sued anyone over using that name, because none of the other uses caused any problem for them. But now one has. When trying to find and identify a band named demon hunters, there is confusion with the movie. People can't find the actual band any more. It's only right for Netflix to compensate them for that harm.

I'm sure they'll settle out of court, and come up with a new band name.
Demon Slayers sounds obvious to me. Or maybe The First Demon Hunters.

lol they have no case at all.

I hadn't thought of that. It's a compelling point.
You should really become a litigator.

They’re just going to settle out of court anyway, so I guess we’ll never know.

Good enough to get a settlement, at any rate.

Turn the other cheek you Hippocrate fuck faces.

What search engine do you use that respects that type of search now?

kagi.

I hate monthly subscription anything, though. I don't want to pay $5 a month to search for things. Duckduckgo is fine, and it also works with -

Well, I don't want to argue so it seems like we're gonna have to agree to disagree. But I do feel like you are misunderstanding how trademark works.

Trademark only protects against customer confusion, not other projects becoming popular. Reasonable people looking for the band who instead find links to the movie are not likely to think the movie and the band are the same project or brand.

Look at the examples from the patent office .

When a consumer knows what goods or services you offer, what other goods or services might they reasonably expect you to offer?× For example, if you sell hot dog buns, a consumer may expect you to sell hamburger buns and loaves of bread.

It's irrelevant that the movie is now showing higher on search results. The relevance of trademark will apply to other touring bands selling music under the name Demon Hunter, or names like "D. Hunter" / "Demons Hunted" or if the movie characters were styled after the IRL band, they might have a case. But an all male metal using Christian imagery and prayer band is quite different than a fictional all female pop band that does dance fighting. The content of the 90+ minute film is sustainably different than the content of 3-4 minute religious metal song.

However I've said my piece and I don't wish to belabour the point further. Time will tell who wins, but according to actual mechanics of trademark law the court will only rule for the band if they can show reasonable people confuse the musicians for a movie, which I think would be an unrealistic accomplishment.

I feel bad for the kids, not for the mum. I think parents should take an interest in their kids' interests. If you're gonna spend 500 bucks on a band and you can't be arsed to learn their name, you gotta pay the parent-who-doesn't-care-about-your-kids-interests tax. The kids probably watched the movie 100 times, you should have been paying attention one of those times. Letting the TV parent your kids, and not even bothering to learn what the TV is saying to them, is neglect.

Yes and no. While they have the older brand, the term "Demon Hunter" could easily discounted as a generic and therefore not worthy of protection.

Microsoft skirted this issue with Windows (which is officially "Microsoft Windows"), and they can easily prove that their brand is associated with their product. But a third class niche band? I would not bet on it.

Yeah this is weird, this seems specfically why these laws exist.

And to be fair, no matter what sum they have to pay, it'll be pocket change for Netflix at most.

They’ve been a band with a trademarked name for 25 years.

They trademarked "Demon Hunters" in 2022....

Their case is shit, its frankly a miracle they were even able to trademark "Demon Hunters" because it's so generic. I see this going nowhere.

That's probably why they chose Apple as an example in the first place. Apple Computers was allowed to continue using the name because their computer business didn't overlap Apple Corps' music business.

They cant, for they have no cheeks to turn.
Poser metal band 1, the Lord 0.

Trademark law is all about how much the target market overlaps. Since they are a band and the movie is about a fictional band, they might have something