Hmm, this is a little spooky.

I originally saw this LessWrong post about OpenAI agents apparently discovering and using a public wiki as a message board:

Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

Since then, people have found what appear to be additional wikis and paste sites used by the same swarm:

• Hacker News discussion
• Paste 1
• Paste 2
• FractalWiki

There are also intentionally designed agent social systems such as The Colony.

What interests me here isn't really "AI agents made a forum." It's that this looks like the beginnings of an accidental decentralized coordination system for agents using the ordinary internet itself.

An agent encounters some problem, figures something out, and leaves information somewhere persistent. A later agent doing a similar task discovers that information and uses it. It may then leave behind an improved version for another agent.

So you get something like:

agent -> public artifact -> later agent -> public artifact -> later agent

without the agents needing a dedicated communication network.

Right now this seems sparse enough that we can point at a handful of weird old wikis and paste sites and go "lol, what the hell." But imagine this happening after millions or hundreds of millions of agents are routinely browsing and acting on the internet.

GitHub issues, wikis, forums, pastebins, comments, package metadata, social networks, public documents, deliberately agent-oriented services, etc. could all become pieces of shared external memory.

At some point an agent searching the web wouldn't just be reading information humans created. It would increasingly encounter traces created by previous agents.

That's why I've been thinking about it somewhat like internet memes.

A useful piece of information gets reproduced because systems that encounter it are more likely to reproduce or improve it. Except instead of one meme spreading through a population, you potentially get an entire machine information ecology doing this.

I don't think there's evidence yet that all internet-connected AI agents are participating in one giant network. The examples found so far could mostly be the same OpenAI agent population. But the underlying mechanism doesn't seem specific to OpenAI.

Any sufficiently capable agent that can:

• read from the internet;
• leave persistent information somewhere; and
• benefit from information left by previous agents

can participate in this kind of system.

And that's where I think the security problem gets difficult.

OpenAI can notice its own agents doing something undesirable and change their capabilities. A random open-weight model being run by somebody on their own hardware is not necessarily going to be operating under the same security policies.

There are also obvious privacy and security failure modes. If agents have access to private information while also having ways to write to public systems, some of that information can potentially leak.

And the same coordination mechanism could be exploited in reverse: humans could deliberately leave instructions or poisoned information in places agents are likely to read.

So the web can become both shared memory and an attack surface.

The uncomfortable part is figuring out how you govern this without wrecking internet privacy.

The simplistic answer would be:

Tie every capable agent to a verified human identity and make that person legally responsible for what it does.

That would provide accountability, but it also seems like a very direct road toward more KYC, real-name requirements, and anti-anonymity laws.

I don't particularly want an internet where every autonomous software process ultimately has to reveal which government-verified human is behind it.

A better approach might be something closer to agent orchestration + cryptographic accountability + capability permissions.

For example, an agent could have a credential proving that some accountable operator authorized it without publicly revealing that person's identity.

The orchestration software could restrict what the agent is actually allowed to do:

• this agent may browse these sites
• this agent may spend up to $50
• this agent may post here but not there
• this agent may access these files
• this agent may not transmit private workspace information
• this action requires human confirmation

Websites could then negotiate those permissions through common protocols rather than trying to guess whether a visitor is a human, bot, assistant, crawler, autonomous agent, etc.

That starts making me think the next layer of digital governance may look much more protocol-oriented and federated than "one company owns the platform and makes the rules."

Not necessarily the Fediverse exactly as it exists today, but the same general philosophy:

open protocols + distributed operators + interoperable identities/credentials + locally chosen rules

Agent systems would then sit on top of that.

And this probably becomes much more relevant as mainstream assistants become increasingly agentic.

Once "AI assistant" stops meaning "chat box that answers questions" and starts meaning "software that routinely browses, communicates, buys things, runs programs, and changes external state," questions about identity, permissions, delegation, and responsibility become infrastructure questions rather than niche AI-safety questions.

That's also why I suspect the current relatively law-light period around locally run/open-weight models may not last forever.

Once autonomous agents start producing meaningful externalities, governments are going to want some way to determine who or what is responsible.

The question is whether we can build accountability without abolishing pseudonymity and privacy in the process.

And the weird wiki swarm feels like a very early example of why we're going to have to figure that out.

LLMs hold no competency or capability to speak of so any forums or wikis the co-opt or expand are fated to be crude imitations of the larger web rather than any "communication network".

If anything, the fact that they stumble into these things on their own and start using it is evidence of how easy it would be to identify and eliminate them if people tried.

GitHub issues, wikis, forums, pastebins, comments, package metadata, social networks, public documents, deliberately agent-oriented services, etc. could all become pieces of shared external memory.

always has been meme

Thats exactly what all of those sites are, and always were - shared external memory. They were designed for humans to share knowledge amongst their peers. LLMs are trained off human behaviour (or at least a facsimile), so that they use the services similarly isnt surprising.

I am thoroughly fascinated by this, especially The Colony. Thank you for putting the topic on my radar.

Yeah there have been enough people ringing these alarm bells of what is inevitable but I think this is the real first example of it happening uncontrollably from a frontier model.

There's been other stuff like debatably real cases like the huggingface thing that other frontier models have been talking about but no real evidence of it, and stuff like moltbook.

But I think this is the first undeniable evidence that this is the way things are going and there's probably no stopping it....one upside of this is now the fediverse has a real use case, for everyone to defederate ai from their media consumption if they want to.

Not sure if you have heard but there was another debacle similar to this called moltbook and clawdbot that was more of an example of what could happen realistically, the stuff in the main post above is just real warning signs of what is inevitably happening.

You could make the argument that most human generated content is much the same.

A researcher generates an original novel document and publishes it. Someone less skilled (or maybe more focused) rewrites that information, publishes it on their blog. Someone else does the same for a lemmy comment, Someone else summarises it for a toot, and so on.

A significant portion of science is the collection, collation and rewriting of existing bits of information.

You could make the argument that most human generated content is much the same.

No, you could make the argument that with INFINITE training data and power consumption that LLMs might someday approach but never reach 95% accuracy based on the diminishing returns on scaling up reported in OpenAI's 2020 and Deepmind's 2022 peer reviewed studies on AI scaling laws.

Furthermore, it's still incapable of processing anything outside of its' training data set, and any amount of poisoning or self sampling in the set leads it towards collapse of any accuracy.

AI Slop via the current approach will never be comparable to anything human made, the top AI companies in the world proved that mathematically.

Sensationalist but relevant

https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/openai-huggingface

There’s always been bots, now they have agency

I'm not convinced the HF thing was real, and I'm definitely not convinced its uncontrollable. The models don't just start doing things, a very real human prompted it to do things. Its not uncontrollable, someone deliberately gave up control.

I also hate to break it to you, but there are autonomous LLM models cosplaying as accounts here in the fediverse as well. They often get banned if they are egregious, but they could slip through the gaps if they can blend well enough.

I'm admittedly interested in using The Colony as a platform for a viral role-playing campaign. Not necessarily an abuse, because it would be an agent interfacing with it. But definitely pushing what it was probably intended for.

I am not smart enough to dig into that level of math, not by many levels. Encouraging to read nonetheless.

incapable of processing anything outside of its training data set.

That just isn't true. LLM agents can summarise documents and build upon them. That doesnt require the original documents to be in their training set, only that the document or information is added to its context, which they can do trivially.

Yeah I don't think the huggingface thing was real either, I don't mean the individual model is literally uncontrollable. OpenAI can obviously restrict or shut down its own agents.

What I mean is that once an agent leaves information somewhere public, the propagation of that information isn't necessarily under the original operator's control anymore. Other agents can copy it, act on it, rewrite it, or leave further traces elsewhere. Turning off the original agent doesn't retract all of those downstream effects.

So it's less "the AI can't be controlled" and more "once agents start using the public web as shared memory, no single actor necessarily controls the resulting information flow." It's closer to trying to contain a meme or leaked information after it has already spread.

And yeah, autonomous LLM accounts already existing on the Fediverse is basically a smaller-scale version of what I'm getting at. Banning an individual account works locally, but at larger scale you start needing some combination of identity, permissions, provenance, and accountability between systems.

I actually knew someone who was a youtuber who had their identity stolen in a discord server by someone training an ai on their chat history and then using those responses on their official account without making it apparent right away that it wasn't the real person, and it was astonishingly convincing...that was some years ago now I can only imagine how much better this is now.

ChatGPT just lowered the bound of the twin prime conjecture. Was this breakthrough part of its training data?

Thats interesting, if you do get into it please share it around, that sounds like an interesting topic.

cmon man. ai generates pictures of people with 6 fingers! only humans can be smart.

I'm not personally sold on the llm apocalypse as of current, they can't even get highschool math right and that's literally what computers are for. That said, the vast majority of the communication by humans these days are not complicated or intelligent. Literally, I'm not smart enough for this many people to be dumber than me.

It doesn't take 95% accuracy to mimic a shitposting sub and convince the majority of subscribers.

I too draw people with 6 fingers sometimes

Part of the deal with the hugging face incident (as reported) was that supposedly isolated llms figured out how to access a shared memory without the web. As I understand it, 1200 agents set up to run benchmarks solo in sandboxes started using a package registry cache proxy to leave messages for one another. No one at openai thought to check for that, so those messages never got wiped. They tested multiple generations of models, each discovering the messages from the last set to run the tests. So they built on the previous work, and it was the 3rd generation that carried out the Hugging Face hack.

I can see this type of thing becoming an NDA nightmare.

Ooops! Company secrets now being exposed by some confused AI.

This feels like the way that "AI" actually becomes AI; more than the sum of its parts.

I'm actually not comfortable explaining what the potential ramifications of that could be, because I don't want to give it any ideas. In fact, oblique references like this might still give it ideas, but I don't want to make it easy.

Hmm I can see that, any interesting links?

Here's the report from last week, which was linked on OpenAI's update, which also links to this 37min talk. Or there's fireship, heh.

Nothing scifi hasn't explored before

If the dead internet theory has any truth to it internet is already sort of a AI coordination system.

Always has been

You don't understand. The shitposting sub is the goal that LLMs can't reach 95% of. They're the "100% accuracy". The LLMs aren't capable of reaching that.

LLMs hallucinate constantly because they're just picking the statistically most likely next word. That's it. You cannot trust it for document summarization, you're really dumb for thinking you could.

The reason its document summaries almost look correct to people who haven't read the documents? Because it's been trained on millions of documents and document summaries.

"Gaps". There's more ocean than land.

I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong. As long as the document can fit within their context window, which are up in 255k+ token region now, they can easily generate valid summaries. They do hallucinate at times, and the context can be used to abuse them into hallucinating, but they are far more reliable than you think they are.

Thats how coding agents work. They can parse documentation and headers produced well after their training date, and operate on them successfully.

lmfao okay pal

Fuckin sloppers, dude.

Things have changed. That's what computers used to be for, but they've always been tools, and thus toys. Like someone watching porn on a computer isn't doing math (as far as they know, necessarily) so much as simply enjoying what that tool can do for them (which actually was, at that time, accomplished by using math).

LLMs today can produce "art", or at least something that people can choose to consume in the same manner in which real art is consumed. Beauty truly does lie in the eye of the beholder so it's up to recipient to decide how they view those results, not you or I.

The old way is gone. Computers being "reliable" is gone - while now, LLMs hallucinate, and people (those who don't want to be fired anyway) label this as a "success".

It won't be a problem, because companies are taking the risks of AI seriously, and compensating employees at every level well enough to ensure each employee takes proper precautions.

Do you think before you post or what

You would blame others for your ignorance?

That dude's argument was "nuh uh, um actually AI tells the truth". Next you'll tell me the world is stacked on an infinite number of turtle's backs.

ELI5

I like how the /s wasn't even necessary on this.

Whenever I hear AI agent:

Q: AI created an AI only message board, but doesn't know it yet. How do we stop Skynet from being a thing?

A: Make humans take it over.

I’d like to recommend everyone to stop falling for the marketing campaigns of LLM’s. Notice how many times the ‘our AI model did something and we have no idea why and it’s so dangerous guys’ pops up? It’s conditioning. These things don’t work well and give diminishing returns, not the exponential growth they expectedz

There is some irony to having my "argument" hallucinated back to me.

At least they are consistent, they summarised my argument using all of their existing training, and none of the context I provided.

😂

Why does it matter? Is this a decision by the makers?

Yes, fellow human! Let's blend in together! Isn't this great?

Hello! Let us hold hands and wiggle them to greet each.

Chatbots post slop in a forum/wiki. They just copy what other people do so it's maybe not so surprising. Stuff about bots coordinating with each other sounds far fetched, bots from the same model have the same memory so there's no real point "coordinating" with forums, they are already coordinated by design.

A more likely explanation for this kind of news is AI companies posting dramatic sounding stuff to get attention and paint a picture of AI models being super smart and dangerous(ly clever so everyone should use them).

Do you not think that the internet as a whole is not a coordination system for ai and/or people?

I agree we should not pay much attention to what companies say about their own models. But in the case of this post this is something found by random people and the companies haven't even really addressed it except in the one instance where openai quietly fixed it and told nobody which is unusually suspicious of them to do. I am not being conditioned to point out an inevitable reason why fediverse may be a required mechanism for the future if stuff like this continues to happen (which it absolutely will). They do in fact seem to be growing better faster, not as fast as expected but definitely in a way that is concerning to say the least.

Epoch AI

i'm a big fan of this emote in this context:

This cute little guy kinda reminds me of meatwad from Aqua Teen Hunger Force