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ValueSubtracted
startrek.website
ValueSubtracted@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-11 |
LoglineStarfleet commandeers the Enterprise for an alien pursuit that grows far beyond its original orders. Written by: Alan B. McElroy Directed by: Sharon Lewis |
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ValueSubtracted
Moderator
ValueSubtracted@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-11 |
A pretty good episode that got a lot more interesting in the final act. For the most part, it came off as a story that we've seen before, albeit a well-told one. But the reveal that Kirk drugged Reeger in order to make him unfit for commend is a genuinely compelling idea, as is the idea that M'Benga just torpedoed his career to cover it up. The B-plot was decent, too - it was good to see Uhura do some ass-kicking. They sure do like to talk about the Klingon War as if it's ancient history when it only ended about five years ago, though. |
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khaosworks
startrek.website
khaosworks@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-14 |
Annotations for 4x08 up at: https://startrek.website/post/44454788 |
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SpaceScotsman
startrek.website
SpaceScotsman@startrek.website Joined: 2023-09-25 |
I really enjoyed this one. The core moral dilemma of orders versus morals, captured in a strong A story and a decent B story. Genuine character growth, and an out for M'Benga that made sense, was in character, and felt justified. The direction was really nice, it captured the tense nature of the episode. The treknobabble for the A plot was pretty decent, and in the B plot I enjoyed the cave set - it felt used and full, not bare like they sometimes do. I really enjoyed the acting here - the Andorian leader gave me a hint of cardassian in his analytical takedown of humans, and the badmiral was really enjoyable from his upbeat arrival to steady decline into madness. The two Kirks getting along really well was enjoyable, and the synchronised walk and talk at the end was a nice way to wrap up the episode. From this season's approach, I'm guessing this episode drawing from old war films, in particular I am getting flavours of submarine hunts, chasing after wakes, and handling big questions of WMDs, the sanity of the chain of command. This is exactly the way I like those references embedded, allowing the trek to shine through, rather than the gimmick taking over. My only immediate quibble in this episode was when Uhura went Rambo in the caves, it did feel like the Andorians went down a little easy, but I wasn't that bothered by it. A'Sha leaving is fine, I guess, she didn't feel very present throughout the season anyway. Please, more of this type of episode. |
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SpaceScotsman
startrek.website
SpaceScotsman@startrek.website Joined: 2023-09-25 |
A pretty good episode that got a lot more interesting in the final act. For the most part, it came off as a story that we've seen before, albeit a well-told one. But the reveal that Kirk drugged Reeger in order to make him unfit for commend is a genuinely compelling idea, as is the idea that M'Benga just torpedoed his career to cover it up. The B-plot was decent, too - it was good to see Uhura ...
M'Benga covering for Kirk is really good, I like that the setup for this was laid a couple of episodes ago. Kirk fighting on behalf of the crew to keep them from doing war crimes - it shows the level of camaraderie this crew has, which admiral reeger likely never experienced, and helps continue to cement Kirk as a member of the enterprise. |
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ValueSubtracted
Moderator
ValueSubtracted@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-11 |
I really enjoyed this one. The core moral dilemma of orders versus morals, captured in a strong A story and a decent B story. Genuine character growth, and an out for M'Benga that made sense, was in character, and felt justified. The direction was really nice, it captured the tense nature of the episode. The treknobabble for the A plot was pretty decent, and in the B plot I enjoyed the cave set...
Maybe it's just because the writers of the (alleged) next Trek film have been talking about it, but I did think of "Crimson Tide" several times during this one.
I can't help but think there's still more to come with her - they haven't dropped her off yet, after all. Something about it seems unfinished, somehow. |
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ValueSubtracted
Moderator
ValueSubtracted@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-11 |
M'Benga covering for Kirk is really good, I like that the setup for this was laid a couple of episodes ago. Kirk fighting on behalf of the crew to keep them from doing war crimes - it shows the level of camaraderie this crew has, which admiral reeger likely never experienced, and helps continue to cement Kirk as a member of the enterprise.
It also lays a foundation for his actions to (arguably) come back to bite him in the ass in "Balance of Terror," when (presumably) the same Romulan ship reappears and starts wiping out colonies. I'll leave it up for debate whether this is a good thing. |
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Grail
multiverse.soulism.net
Grail@multiverse.soulism.netJoined: 2026-01-14 |
Yaaay, a badmiral! |
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Grail
multiverse.soulism.net
Grail@multiverse.soulism.netJoined: 2026-01-14 |
M'Benga covering for Kirk is really good, I like that the setup for this was laid a couple of episodes ago. Kirk fighting on behalf of the crew to keep them from doing war crimes - it shows the level of camaraderie this crew has, which admiral reeger likely never experienced, and helps continue to cement Kirk as a member of the enterprise.
Hopefully being court martialled helps M'benga with his space madness |
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SpaceScotsman
startrek.website
SpaceScotsman@startrek.website Joined: 2023-09-25 |
I’m guessing this episode drawing from old war films, in particular I am getting flavours of submarine hunts, chasing after wakes, and handling big questions of WMDs, the sanity of the chain of command. Maybe it's just because the writers of the (alleged) next Trek film have been talking about it, but I did think of "Crimson Tide" several times during this one. A’Sha leaving is fine, I guess, s...
Maybe she was an undercover romulan, sent to report if enterprise go too close to finding the cloaked ship, and now that Reeger is likely no longer a threat, and enterprise probably isn't going to want to follow up, her job's done so she's off. |
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Stormygeddon
startrek.website
Stormygeddon@startrek.website Joined: 2023-07-23 |
Yaaay, a badmiral!
At this point I'm starting to have trouble naming a Goodmiral. |
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heathenstorm
news.heathenlab.net
heathenstorm@news.heathenlab.netJoined: 2026-01-24 |
Why couldn't they be like this every week? Definite TOS Movie vibe to this one, especially in the superlative soundtrack. |
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| 9 | |||
End0fLine
startrek.website
endofline@startrek.websiteJoined: 2026-08-15 |
At this point I'm starting to have trouble naming a Goodmiral.
Vance and Cornwell come to mind for me. |
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| 9 | |||
End0fLine
startrek.website
endofline@startrek.websiteJoined: 2026-08-15 |
I was internally screaming "somebody do something!" this whole episode. This was a great episode. My emotions were all over the place. I don't quite understand why the admiral at the end kept acting like he could end Kirk and then M'Benga's career. He just admitted to forging logs. What was everybody else's take on that situation? I can't imagine the Enterprise officers are also going to keep quiet about what happened on the Constitution. |
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Stormygeddon
startrek.website
Stormygeddon@startrek.website Joined: 2023-07-23 |
Wow, actually exploring a Strange New World for a bit. The intro came in really late this one. Ten minutes? Long opening, but then again it's a longer episode. Oh snap, an Andorian episode. I love Andorian episodes. Was that the countdown sound from Independence day? Overall liked this episode. It was a feeling similar to that Spongebob episode where the customers go "that's what we've been waiting for!" A classic Star Trek moral quandary orders vs Badmiral deal. |
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| 9 | |||
Grail
multiverse.soulism.net
Grail@multiverse.soulism.netJoined: 2026-01-14 |
I was internally screaming "somebody do something!" this whole episode. This was a great episode. My emotions were all over the place. I don't quite understand why the admiral at the end kept acting like he could end Kirk and then M'Benga's career. He just admitted to forging logs. What was everybody else's take on that situation? I can't imagine the Enterprise officers are also going to keep q...
He was drugged, so even though the drugs made him tell the truth, he can claim they made him spout nonsense. |
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billmason
startrek.website
billmason@startrek.website Joined: 2026-01-16 |
Just got to watch this week's. It was all right, I guess, compared to most of the rest of the season. My best praise is it was good enough to make me forego head-desking that they found yet another reason to get Kirk aboard the Enterprise for a story about him. |
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billmason
startrek.website
billmason@startrek.website Joined: 2026-01-16 |
Just got to watch this week's. It was all right, I guess, compared to most of the rest of the season. My best praise is it was good enough to make me forego head-desking that they found yet another reason to get Kirk aboard the Enterprise for a story about him.
Actually the more I ponder it, the more it stops holding up and I don't really care for it.
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franklybrad
programming.dev
bradfrank@programming.dev Joined: 2023-06-09 |
Vance and Cornwell come to mind for me.
April? Paris? |
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gmask1
aussie.zone
gmask1@aussie.zone Joined: 2023-06-28 |
Good episode. I didn’t think they needed to drug the admiral - there were already emotional (family) and experience (Kirk snr actually being in command at that earlier battle) factors that could been used as kindling for a breakdown. |
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Snowcano
startrek.website
Snowcano@startrek.website Joined: 2023-07-28 |
Why couldn't they be like this every week? Definite TOS Movie vibe to this one, especially in the superlative soundtrack.
The soundtrack was really outstanding wasn’t it? There were several points where I was like, oh damn, this moment has some weight to it, thanks to the music! |
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kabutor
startrek.website
kabutor@startrek.website Joined: 2026-08-01 |
I’m guessing this episode drawing from old war films, in particular I am getting flavours of submarine hunts, chasing after wakes, and handling big questions of WMDs, the sanity of the chain of command. Maybe it's just because the writers of the (alleged) next Trek film have been talking about it, but I did think of "Crimson Tide" several times during this one. A’Sha leaving is fine, I guess, s...
I enter the discussion post after watching the episode, did a Ctrl+F to Crimson Tide and I see I'm not the only one thinking about it. As soon in the episode as the Admiral says, "Here there is only one voice, mine" or something like that I knew they were ripping off the plot of Crimson Tide, and I was not wrong. |
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ValueSubtracted
Moderator
ValueSubtracted@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-11 |
I enter the discussion post after watching the episode, did a Ctrl+F to Crimson Tide and I see I'm not the only one thinking about it. As soon in the episode as the Admiral says, "Here there is only one voice, mine" or something like that I knew they were ripping off the plot of Crimson Tide, and I was not wrong.
I think an important difference is the characters' motivations, though - for Reeger, it's personal, while Ramsey in "Crimson Tide" is merely hawkish and reckless. |
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kabutor
startrek.website
kabutor@startrek.website Joined: 2026-08-01 |
I think an important difference is the characters' motivations, though - for Reeger, it's personal, while Ramsey in "Crimson Tide" is merely hawkish and reckless.
I have to disagree, Ramsey (Gene Hackman) in "Crimson Tide" gives during all the confrontation scenes a very good arguments about why they have to launch, for me as good as Denzel Washington character ones. He is hawkish and violent, but even at the end he says, let's sit down and see who is right. He was acting on good conscience even if his position was brutal and could cause a World War. That's why his character is so good, because his motivations were right. Here the Admiral is never right, he is just looking for revenge, even if he denies it, until is drugged. That's why the episode pales in comparison, because there is someone who is right and someone who is not. |
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ieightpi
lemmy.world
ieightpi@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-06-26 |
Definitely enjoyed this one. It was fun seeing Kirk doing what he does best and following his gut no matter the cost. Been really enjoying Paul Wesley on this. |
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ShaunKL
startrek.website
ShaunKL@startrek.website Joined: 2023-06-12 |
Actually the more I ponder it, the more it stops holding up and I don't really care for it. The show really undercuts Kirk (IMHO) by having his plan be 1) risk killing himself by accident by hiding amid the radioactive phaser whatever it was to establish a bluff, and then spike his CO's drink with a high potency drug he only just learned of and he shouldn't be playing around with because, I don...
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Tenebris Nox
feddit.uk
tenebrisnox@feddit.ukJoined: 2023-06-12 |
SMW actually makes a Star Trek episode! I've heard this described as the best episode of Star Trek for 20 years. I think I agree. |
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dethstrobe
startrek.website
dethstrobe@startrek.website Joined: 2023-07-08 |
Well, this was a great episode. The only downside is that the Badmeral didn't get his comeuppance like is tradition, but I can excuse that because we get some justification why M’Benga gets a demotion. We've seen this plot a few times, I don't feel that's a bad thing. I feel like some of the best of Star Trek, and especially SNW, is just recycling plots but doing them better, or at least something different. Also, it was super nice to give Uhura the spotlight. It felt a bit over the top, but I kind of accept it... I kind of wish A’Sha had a bit more development to land her decision, but she was not having a good time on the Enterprise and she clearly almost died, and technically she's seen enough times where the Enterprise was almost destroyed, it really does seem logical for her to nope out of Star Fleet. I cannot fault the Vulcan prioritizing self preservation over Uhura's attempts to make her feel welcomed. And a few continuity notes. The ship is obviously the same one from Balance of Terror. The other helms men next to Sulu says, everyone knows who attacked the Star Fleet Base. So this cloak ship has been a problem for a while and everyone knows of it, but there is likely political problems that make it impossible to deal with. We also know cloaking tech is not new, as we also see it in ENT's Minefield. We also seen an alternate reality version of Balance of Terror in SNW's A Quality of Mercy, which I feel this has some strange parallels with. Where in QoM Pike hesitates to attack the Romulan Ship, while we see in BoT Kirk is gungho. In this one Kirk is less gungho (but like, reasonably so). I just thought it was an interesting take. It also explains why the writers need to make sure Pike wasn't on board or else he'd have spoiled the big reveal that it was Romulans. |
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milkisklim
lemmy.world
milkisklim@lemmy.world Joined: 2025-06-04 |
I really enjoyed this one. The core moral dilemma of orders versus morals, captured in a strong A story and a decent B story. Genuine character growth, and an out for M'Benga that made sense, was in character, and felt justified. The direction was really nice, it captured the tense nature of the episode. The treknobabble for the A plot was pretty decent, and in the B plot I enjoyed the cave set...
My head canon vis a vis Uhura is that 1) she has trained with La'an on tactical back in season 1 and 2) the sound feedback on the coms machine probably did a number on the Andorians antennae and therefore on their internal balance like an extended flashbang granade. |
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kabutor
startrek.website
kabutor@startrek.website Joined: 2026-08-01 |
Maybe she was an undercover romulan, sent to report if enterprise go too close to finding the cloaked ship, and now that Reeger is likely no longer a threat, and enterprise probably isn't going to want to follow up, her job's done so she's off.
I can see that, each time I read your comment it makes more and more sense |
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Akuchimoya
startrek.website
Akuchimoya@startrek.website Joined: 2023-08-22 |
I’m guessing this episode drawing from old war films, in particular I am getting flavours of submarine hunts, chasing after wakes, and handling big questions of WMDs, the sanity of the chain of command. Maybe it's just because the writers of the (alleged) next Trek film have been talking about it, but I did think of "Crimson Tide" several times during this one. A’Sha leaving is fine, I guess, s...
I wonder if A'Sha will have T'Lyn moment and realize she's been Starfleet all along. |
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billmason
startrek.website
billmason@startrek.website Joined: 2026-01-16 |
Boy, I just discovered that people are picking apart the star map in this episode. There's a hair trigger to just get angry about anything at this point 😂 |
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ValueSubtracted
Moderator
ValueSubtracted@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-11 |
Boy, I just discovered that people are picking apart the star map in this episode. There's a hair trigger to just get angry about anything at this point 😂
...Do I even want to ask? I'd have to double-check, but it IIRC it was the same map we typically see. But maybe that's the "problem" 🙄. |
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billmason
startrek.website
billmason@startrek.website Joined: 2026-01-16 |
...Do I even want to ask? I'd have to double-check, but it IIRC it was the same map we typically see. But maybe that's the "problem" 🙄.
It's basically that for literally one second of screen-time (if you pause so you can read it), Cardassia is marked on the map with a "Wormhole" marked near it. So if you're in a frame to be mad, you're mad because the DS9 wormhole seems to be on the map a century before it's known. Or more esoterically, there's a wormhole stable enough to mark on a map when TNG told us there were historically no known stable wormholes. I basically would headcanon it as "they thought it was stable and marked it, but later it turned it was not". Or I would just not be freeze-framing and nitpicking this stuff in the first place. Really though, I think making detailed maps on the show marking all sorts of places just opens a door for problems. Geography is second to travel times from A to B among "things work in whatever way makes sense in this story and otherwise forget it" in Star Trek. (Edit: I guess geography and travel time is all of a piece, but you know what I mean.) |
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billmason
startrek.website
billmason@startrek.website Joined: 2026-01-16 |
It's basically that for literally one second of screen-time (if you pause so you can read it), Cardassia is marked on the map with a "Wormhole" marked near it. So if you're in a frame to be mad, you're mad because the DS9 wormhole seems to be on the map a century before it's known. Or more esoterically, there's a wormhole stable enough to mark on a map when TNG told us there were historically n...
Just for reference/funsies.
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ValueSubtracted
Moderator
ValueSubtracted@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-11 |
It's basically that for literally one second of screen-time (if you pause so you can read it), Cardassia is marked on the map with a "Wormhole" marked near it. So if you're in a frame to be mad, you're mad because the DS9 wormhole seems to be on the map a century before it's known. Or more esoterically, there's a wormhole stable enough to mark on a map when TNG told us there were historically n...
Hoo boy. Wait until they hear about the rubber ducky... |
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williams_482
startrek.website
williams_482@startrek.websiteJoined: 2023-06-12 |
Well, this was a great episode. The only downside is that the Badmeral didn't get his comeuppance like is tradition, but I can excuse that because we get some justification why M’Benga gets a demotion. We've seen this plot a few times, I don't feel that's a bad thing. I feel like some of the best of Star Trek, and especially SNW, is just recycling plots but doing them better, or at least someth...
This one is funny because I've been thinking "oh, this is what does it" many times over, starting with "secret daughter in the transporter buffer." Maybe this time it will stick? |
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Lumidaub
feddit.org
Lumidaub@feddit.orgJoined: 2024-11-21 |
I am so late to the party but I only just got around to watching the episode.
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