Sure, I don't disagree. I disagree with class reductionism, which itself is anti-Marxist.

I agree with you. I find it to be a forest for the trees argument with many sympathetic to the Palastinians cause. They fail so see the driving factors behind the zionist project is class exploitation.

Instead they get drawn into the narratives of the elites on the other side who seek to exploit them through continuation of the project.

Like supporting a Mullah, because you are against the Rabbi, when the true enemy is the elites using religion..

There was widespread support for secession, unless you think 41% is trivial? 41% is plenty for separatists to spark a movement, and once this movement is on the ground consciousness shifts to meet the new material conditions.

As for the point on the poll being from Kiev, I never said they were invalid, and specifically made my points on the assumption that they were valid, because I knew you would claim I was dismissing it. It's not that the source doesn't say what I want it to say, it's that the fact that this was done by Kiev more than lends credibility to the presentation of the numbers being biased! Again, though, I assumed the numbers were correct for my argument!

I gave you more than plenty courtesy, that's why I assumed each and every one of your sources was correct for my arguments. Dismissing that fact is frustrating because I went to further lengths than necessary to tackle your points head-on.

I see where you're going with this. It's interesting to think about.

I think the crux of this argument isn't the definition of imperialism, but of nation. Which if given the same scrutiny, could also be considered to be too vague a definition to be useful.

Asking a confederate, they probably would have said yes. Asking anyone else? Well, not a single other nation on earth recognized the confederacy, so probably no.

But I think the objective ambiguity you're pointing at doesn't make a word useless. A policeman shoots and kills someone. One side says murder, the other doesn't. That's the same fundamental ambiguity, but it's resolved when we apply objectivity to it. Murder as a word isn't useless, the same as imperialism.

are you for real?

The reason Israelis don't support the existence of Palestine is because they are actively colonizing it through genocidal settler-colonialism. The reason Palestinians do not support the existence of Israel is because Israel is a genocidal settler-colonial project erasing them from existence. These are not equal in any capacity, the simple fix is a dissolution of the genocidal apartheid state and the recognition of Palestine as a state.

Israelis are well aware of the genocide. And they support it

82%

"I'm a vicious genocidal freak, so I assume the people I'm exterminating must be too."

Well you've been given that source now

Yes it did make me feel good. I’m not going to bother replying to you when you’re deflecting every single thing someone says to you.

The problem here is that you’re misrepresenting my opinion, not that I have to “accept I’m entrenched”. Liberals have been using that word so much lately I wonder which slop outlet is using it.

Cowbee and another user, eldavi, layed it out clearly for you way better than I could have, with solid and western sources to satisfy you. What happened to agreeing that your propaganda is better than mine?

Go back to Reddit

Yes, brainwashed like all zionists (MAGAs) by zionist (right wing) media which show the Palestinians (Mexicans) as animals. Average people are herd animals and easy to manipulate with patriotic BS speaks, flags, religion and fears of an invented enemy. Same recipe since centuries.

You’re going to dismiss anything I post as “Western” fiction, and I’m going to dismiss anything you post as Russian misinformation

"I assume everyone else is just as dishonest as me"

That acknowledgement actually gives me the ability to reconsider my position if I was presented with good enough evidence.

You've already openly stated that you will reject all evidence as "Russian lies"

With that belief, how will you ever accept something that tells you that you’re wrong?

"Actually me openly stating that I will reject any disagreement out of hand names me more right"

Average people are not outright exterminationist. Except in Israel.

Nazi Germany was a fascist country where you would get tortured for opposing the genocide of jews. Israel is different.

Here ya go, big guy. Guess I won't be hearing from you any time soon, lol.

No it is not about class. It is about ultranationalism and supremacism ideologies driving genocides

Everything I said is based on fact. Russia has an absolutely paltry sum of finance capital on the world stage. From an economic perspective, Russia is unable to advance from a developing industrial capitalist economy to an imperialist economy, even if it wishes to, as the world is already presently dominated by the moribund western empire headed by the US. In a conflict between the clear imperial hegemon and a reactionary, nationalist regional power, the regional power plays a progressive role internationally.

Regarding Churchill, the genocide committed by the UK is fairly well-documented. The UK, unlike modern Russia, has a network of neocolonies and and a much, much larger portion of international finance capital. It is through this mechanism, along with unequal exchange, IP monopoly, and NATO encroachment, that the UK plays a very present role in upholding imperialism.

Regarding accusations of Russia kidnapping Ukrainian kids, this has generally been proven false. Russia does not abandon children on the battlefield as a rule, though the west frames this as "kidnapping." Regarding the targeting of civilian infrastructure, Ukraine is just as guilty of this as Russia is, if not more, especially when we factor in the previous period of the Ukrainian Civil War before Russia joined.

I understand where you're coming from, but I highly recommend you read Masses, Elites and Rebels.

israel's government has also been around a significant bit longer than nazi germany's was. that gives time to indoctrinate entire generations.

like, i grew up in statesia. i'll be picking the propaganda out of my history education my entire life (and i studied the damn subject for a bit. long, irrelevant story) and it's not fun. it's less fun being unaware tho.

This argument is a liberal Zionist argument that deliberately attempts to undermine any attempt at actually understanding the mechanisms of settler-colonialism.

It is on you if you got propagandized to support genocide and killing infants

That's bullshit and you know it.

Nope. Israel is a genocidal settler-colony primarily consisting of Europeans killing Palestinians for land. This is not complicated. We can explore the complexities and nuances of this subject, but the solution is simple: dissolution of Israel, and recognition of Palestine.

Of course it's Netanyahu's fault! Israel was a much nicer state when its prime minister was the founder of the terrorist group Irgun, or the leader of the terrorist group Lehi. It's just one bad apple, not the whole tree that is rotten! /s

But the Palestinians are already home, it is their land that has been taken from them. They are colonizing invoking a 2000-year exile and 3000-year religious claims.

That was it

you're the only one claiming propaganda absolves you of your actions.

What drives ultranationalism and supremacist ideology if not class?

The function of the Israeli system is genocidal settler-colonialism. It isn't simply a preference of the state, but the entire foundation of the system.

Racism. Racism has no class and it become systematic racism once the racist take power

What is racism other than declaring one's superiority over others? Its just a sub form of classism's.

Racism at a fundamental level is indisingishable from nationalism, or Religiocentrism.

Classism is the basic concept that one person deserves more than another. Its anti-equality. It has many subforms.

Racism is insufficient to describe the motivations of Zionism. Take the racism away and it still won't address most of the problems of religiocentrism and nationalism in that state.

"Nuh uh!"

Yeah that's typically the result of a fascist government.

I don't apologize for authoritarians, but against "easy solutions", the problem isn't solved eliminating Netanyahu (Trump), its eliminating all the infrastructure and disinformation media behind these. The religion which shows the kids in schools that only in their country the people are the "pure race" and all other are for serve or to eliminate. Education and true information kills totalitarism govs, not only the dictator.
It's a bad trap to confuse anti-zionism and anti-semitism. Globalizations are always wrong. All US citizens are stupid and Trumpsupporters?

Since the Goebbels propaganda engine and schoolsystem in Nazi-Germany.

The Palestinians do not have an army and cannot defend themselves. The Palestinians aren’t getting weapons and ammunition to defend themselves from the western imperial powers. They live in an open air prison and have nowhere to run and no means to defend themselves. This is not an equivalent comparison.

Fair point. The Epstein class is planning the Gaza rebuild and the techno fascists are totally onboard with this. The fundamentals are a tool for the imperial empire to establish a foothold in the oil rich Middle East. I mean the country was literally founded by the Rothschild’s. I would say both groups are using eachother but even among the “elite” this thread of white Jewish supremacy is ever present. The elites and Jeffrey Epstein were very into social Darwinism, eugenics and supremacy. All these factors play a roll in what we are seeing in Gaza.

billionaire eugenics project

It’s both

There's compulsory military service. All Zionists join the military and directly participate in genocide as young adults. They DO know.