This is nothing new. Liberals have always done this throughout history. They put all the blame on individuals to cover up the root cause of these constantly reoccuring wars and genocides.

Netanyahu isn't the problem.

Israel is. The West is. Imperialism is. Capitalism is.

By: @commie______central

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/DdQhoDho7R1/

Would you also agree most Russians are responsible for the invasion of Ukraine?

The only war is class war.

Israels occupation of Gaza and the west bank is wrong.

But, where are you getting this 90% figure?
Highest I could find was 65%. Not that any support is acceptable.

Or are we just taking instagram memes on face value?

It feels like this meme is really trying to encourage hate for people just based on where they were born.

Could you post your sources?

This is the main poll I saw quoted around when searching.

https://jcfa.org/survey-most-israelis-want-to-see-military-rule-in-gaza-the-day-after/

the current poll indicates a clear Israeli majority (64%) opposed to establishing a Palestinian state

64% it's still low

if those “Russians” came from other continents, and started stealing native Ukrainian land, calling it Russia due to biblical crap, while imperialists giving them a green card, then they started ethnic cleanse millions of indigenous people of that land, and established a fake western state called Russia, renaming every village with fake names using a made up language.

Then my answer is YES i would agree

Is anyone trying to defend Russia by pinning everything in Putin alone and saying we need to keep supporting Russia because they're otherwise good? No? Then you're just strawmanning

"Look guys, I think the apartheid and genocide is not great, but it's wrong to say it's not the sole fault of Netanyahu, with the rest of Israel being innocent and good!"

I would say the NATO leaders are responsible, as they've admitted their plan to provoke Russia into invading by breaking the minsk agreements and building forces up along the border.

Never said any Israeli was good.

Just asked for a source for the stat provided in the OP. Given such source that 9/10 support the IDF. I could easily agree thats it would be safe to assume that any given Israeli is faschist.

Don't vulgarize the class struggle by erasing settler-colonialism from the equation. You've turned a uniting statement into its opposite, using it to defend a genocidal apartheid state.

"NATO made me bomb all those hospitals".

You guys unironically use the exact same rhetoric Israel uses to justify what it does to Palestinians to defend Russian aggression in Ukraine because you incorrectly believe Russia is a balancing power to "the West" instead of just another flavour of imperialist, authoritarian oppressors.

I mean those Russians are volunteering to murder Ukrainians for money.

A majority of the Israeli public, at 78%, expresses high trust in the IDF, showing no significant change compared to the last three months (75%–77%), since peaking at 83% during the war against Iran (Operation Rising Lion) in June 2025. Among the Jewish public, trust in the IDF remains very high at 90% in this survey, compared to 86% previously, while among the Arab public it remains very low at 32%.

https://www.inss.org.il/publication/survey-october-2025/

The 90% number seems to be Jewish Israelis as opposed to Israelis in general.

Russia doesn't have the finance capital required to be imperialist, and as such in a conflict between the clear imperialist hegemony and a reactionary nationalist state like Russia, Russia plays a progressive role. Churchill was a monstrous imperialist that committed genocide in India, but the Soviet Union was correct in identifying the UK as an ally against Nazi Germany, the larger threat at the time. Russia isn't even an actual imperialist, and therefore its sovereignty should be respected, rather than continuously encircled with missiles pointing directly at Moscow.

I think this is really just a semantic argument because you seem to be writing specifically with Lenin's rather narrow definition of imperialism in mind.

If we go by the common understanding of imperialism which has been in use for at least a century before Lenin even picked up a pen:

The extension of a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political dominance over other nations.

You can absolutely classify the aggression the Russian Federation inflicts on former Soviet states as imperialism.

rather than continuously encircled with missiles pointing directly at Moscow

Would Finland have joined NATO if Russia didn't invade Ukraine?

Does their voluntary entry into a defensive alliance constitute an "encirclement"? Do they not have a right to conduct their own diplomacy as they see fit?

Furthermore, when both Russia and NATO agree that MAD is a legitimate defensive measure, can either argue in good faith that "stationing" missiles is aggression? Russia points missiles at NATO nations, NATO points them back, both blocs openly agree that this is what has prevented nuclear war from breaking out (so far).

Finally, while I don't completely agree with the conflation of the US and NATO, I think we can agree that the US as an imperialist power has absolutely taken every measure it can to sabotage communist states. However should Russia not respect the sovereignty of smaller nations surrounding it? Based on the actions of Russia towards former Soviet states who remained "neutral", joining NATO seems to be the only way for them to prevent a Russian invasion.

My issue isn't with the word imperialism, but with imperialism as an existing material process. I don't hold to Lenin's analysis because I prefer Lenin, I hold to it because Lenin described an actual existing system that I actively oppose. I do not oppose anything anyone may want to label as imperialism simply because they call it as such. As for NATO being imperialist, that point isn't based on voluntary joining or not, but the fact that it is a military coalition of imperialist countries.

most israelis were born in europe, so nah, youre projecting maybe?

Respectfully, how can you not see that your response is simply:

"If I ignore everything you wrote, and if you simply agree with what I want you to believe, I'm actually correct".

Rereading your original post, it also seems to imply that if Russia was richer (remember that it is not a socialist nation, the Russian economy does run on finance capital), you would be happy to classify its actions as imperialism.

Based on this, out of principle should we not oppose these actions which are fundamentally unjust regardless of who is committing them?

I don't see that because I didn't say any of that. Moreover, I never denied that if Russia had larger finance capital that it would likely develop in an imperialist direction. The important part is that that is currently a fantasy, and not actual reality. I do oppose actions that are fundamentally unjust, that's why I suppose the US empire and NATO encirclement of countries that provokes needless wars and bloodshed for western imperialist profit.

When you thought Netanyahu is the problem, but then check other Israeli political parties, and turns out he's among the least extreme. And has better approval ratings than Hitler had towards the end of the war.

Even Gadi Eisenkot - Israel's most likely next prime minister, whose party is apparently centrist - says any plans of a two-state solution are, quote, 'delusions', and openly supports the so-called settlers.

The more you learn about Israel, the better you'll see there's no hope for it.

If I'm honest, it seems to me that you believe an evil in the context of a "bigger" evil is actually good.

I can't accept that. Russia's imperialism is evil, just like US imperialism is evil. I won't defend or accept either.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

I don't believe analyzing the world through an idealist framing of "good" vs. "evil" is particularly effective. Russia's entry into the Ukrainian Civil War was prompted by NATO repeatedly violating Russia's sovereignty, as well as Kiev committing ethnic repressions against the separatists in the Donbass region, which circles back to the Euromaidan coup backed by the west, which circles back to imperialism as a material system during the era of monopoly finance capital. The US-led imperialist order is what caused the invasion in the first place, and ending this is what's most important for the entire working class.

Could you please address the points I've made.

I can't address your point for the same reason I can't refute that a teapot is currently orbiting Jupiter.

I think we're both going to have to agree that we believe different propaganda.

You're going to dismiss anything I post as "Western" fiction, and I'm going to dismiss anything you post as Russian misinformation.

Even if this were true (it’s not) you still moved the goal posts from your original statement. And even if it were true (it’s not) it still doesn’t pin the problem solely on Putin or on Russian citizens, almost like there’s nuanced material analysis to be applied across broad, complex international geopolitics.

EVEN THEN, Your analysis is just mediocre at best. Deliberately misleading, childish and ignorant at worst.

Can you explain what I have described as "western fiction," and what I have said that is "Russian disinformation?" Surely you can point to one instance of either of these if that's your conclusion.

This is always how it ends with the imperialist argument, trying to frame it as not imperialist and then back pedaling to implying that imperialism is good because actually the other guys are imperialist by MY definition of what imperialism is, not by Lenin’s “narrow” (lol) definition.

“We just believe different propaganda” doesn’t make any sense, you willingly admit you believe imperialist propaganda and that you’ll just dismiss anything that’s not western as “Russian disinformation”. What would even be the point in trying to reach out? you just hit a wall when it comes to history and modern current events, then you just straight up admit “well I won’t believe what you tell me so I’ll just keep on telling others the same thing that’s been debunked a million times”

Pathetic. Truly.

Thank you for the source!

Thats aweful.

This whole discussion is about the lack of source for given statistics.

You might be right, but I dont know where youre getting your info.

“Western” fiction

it's not western fiction, the united states government itself has effectively already admitted lying about many things and ukraine will be the next one.

united states congress voted to ban weapons shipments to ukraine in 2018 because they were afraid that the nazi elements in ukraine would provoke a conflict w russia -- this is a fact in writing available to the public for viewing -- and you should be asking yourself why/how you believe the propaganda anyways.

Not only Netanyahu, there is also the Zionist parties and the opression of all not-zionist media in Israel. A hugh part of the population are not even aware of the genocide.
Same as in the US 30% still vote for Trump, because they are in a bubble from mass media like FOX News.
The problem is always the ignorance and fears created by certain colectives in own benefits. Dictatorships and faschism wouldn't work with an educated and correct informed population.

I thought it was in the 80s percentage wise?

64% is not over 90%

As you mentioned Donbass, I'll make three arguments with some evidence:

1. The majority of people in the Donbass did not support seperatism:

https://www.pravda.com.ua/articles/2019/04/12/7211983/

1. While I agree the repeal of the language law was unnecessary and ill timed (and Ukraine was even advised against it by the EU), it did not amount to suppression of minorities. If you define a minority in Eastern Ukraine as a Russian speaker, they are in fact a majority. When Russia started the seperatist uprising, they did not defend Russian speakers against western Ukrainian speakers, they forced the minority of Russian speaking Ukrainian seperatists to fight against the majority of Russian speaking Ukrainians who wished to remain part of Ukraine.

https://www.husj.harvard.edu/articles/language-status-and-state-loyalty-in-ukraine

1. While pro-Russian misinformation often talks about CIA maidan operatives and NATO cyborg mercenaries, the seperatist movement which became Russia's causus belli for the full scale invasion was completely reliant on Russian state funded ultra nationalist paramilitaries and regular Russian army volunteers on "vacation" as a fifth column:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/04/23/10-years-later-russian-volunteer-fighters-recall-fueling-the-war-in-donbas-a84917

already admitted lying about many things

And the Kremlin is a famously honest place.

this is a fact in writing available to the public for viewing

Then why can't I find it?

and you should be asking yourself why/how you believe the propaganda anyways

I always do, can you say the same?

Explain how I can prove that there is not a teapot orbiting Jupiter right now and then I will understand how I can argue against a bunch of claims you've regurgitated without evidence.

I shouldn't have to prove Santa doesn't exist simply because you claim he does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

Regarding claim 1, I both fail to see the relevance of the point nor do I think linking a Ukrainian-state affiliated source drawing on a poll based in Kiev is particularly compelling evidence. Even if the numbers were true and properly sourced, this does not mean that secession was somehow inorganic, and it further does not mean that after the beginning of the Ukrainian Civil War, that these numbers did not dramatically change in favor of secession.

Regarding claim 2, this again does not logically follow. You appear to be erasing Russian as an ethnicity, and instead see this as a problem of language, and not ethnicity. Ethnic Russians form a minority of Eastern Ukraine, despite Russian being more widely spoken even among ethnic Ukrainians. The fact that the fascist forces that had taken over Kiev were popularly and organically opposed by primarily ethnic Russians does not mean Russia forced them into doing so:

As far as Russian volunteers are concerned, nobody is denying that they exist. Rather, what's important is that it has been the Banderites in Kiev that overthrew the democratically elected president at the support of NATO, which threw the entire country into crisis. This sparked the Ukrainian Civil War, which Russia entered after Kiev escalated the massacres of civilians and accelerated buildup of forces along Russia's border, with missiles pointed directly at Moscow.

In all of this, there are two things you have not accounted for:

1. The primacy of NATO and western imperialism in provoking the war

2. The right of self-determination for the Donbass region, which after a decade of war with Kiev wishes to be integrated into Russia.

you're right to hold both the kremlin and the white house with equal amounts of distrust.

I always do, can you say the same?

the part you're missing that the kremlin's propaganda is transparent whereas the white house's propaganda is laundered through ngo's to make it harder detect -- that fact that you have to learn this the hard way using things like the freedom of information act goes to prove that everyone here is putting more effort into it than you are to educate yourself.

Then why can’t I find it?

YES!!! this is the first step to understanding how american propaganda works! ask yourself why it's so hard to access this public record and you'll discover that it's also a pain in the ass to find other public records regarding north korea, china, cuba, etc.

you have to be an american citizen to access it directly or you can use the breadcrumbs from public articles like this one: https://thehill.com/opinion/international/381873-when-we-cant-agree-to-fight-against-neo-nazis-weve-reached-a-new-low/amp/#top#1 to find out who sponsored it and then you can start your search from there, but i would recommend the freedom of information act first because it'll do more to give you an understand of how american propaganda works.

Pathetic. Truly.

Did that comment make you feel good? How sad.

This is always how it ends with the imperialist argument, trying to frame it as not imperialist and then back pedaling to implying that imperialism is good because actually the other guys are imperialist by MY definition of what imperialism is, not by Lenin’s “narrow” (lol) definition.

What are you talking about?

I never back pedaled. I believe the Russian invasion of Ukraine is imperialism. It fits the definition, which I will repeat.

The extension of a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political dominance over other nations.

And to clarify regarding Lenin, I believe he wrote that wars of imperialism are inevitable under capitalism, not that they are exclusive to capitalist countries. I'm sure you're up to date on your theory, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

well I won’t believe what you tell me so I’ll just keep on telling others the same thing that’s been debunked a million times”

You're making my point for me.

What Russian lie about the war do you think you can regurgitate that I haven't heard already?

What evidence of Russian imperialism can I present to you that you don't already consider "debunked a million times".

I acknowledge that I am entrenched. I acknowledge that I have bias based on personal experience. That acknowledgement actually gives me the ability to reconsider my position if I was presented with good enough evidence.

If you don't acknowledge what prevents you from changing your opinion, you will never know how to change it.

I don't think you acknowledge your own entrenchment, I think you simply believe you are right. With that belief, how will you ever accept something that tells you that you're wrong?

The extension of a nation’s authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political dominance over other nations.

This is such a broad definition that it becomes meaningless.

How so?

united states congress voted to ban weapons shipments to ukraine in 2018 because they were afraid that the nazi elements in ukraine would provoke a conflict w russia

I'm confused. You claimed that weapon shipments to Ukraine were banned, but the evidence you posted says that they were approved with a provision that they couldn't be supplied to Azov. Which is fair.

I'd also like to point out that you seem to imply that Russia doesn't have its own fair share of Nazi's. Are we going to ignore the existence of Wagner?

Maybe the only silver lining of this war is that many Nazi's on both sides have been killed.

You're probably familiar with the US Civil War, yes?

The Confederacy declared independence and established itself as a new nation, the Union took exception to that and fought them.

Was that imperialism?

Its also a case of polling Germans under the Nazis government vs what their true thoughts are.

The reality is that German support for the Nazis policies rarely went over the 35-40% level. The majority were just forced to go along with it.

Still, just like with the Germans, it will be a hell of a job rabilitating that society.

as i said: i shared a breadcrumb w you -- it not supporting evidence. if you pursue this further you will see how this article was the first stage of an american propaganda narrative as well as obtain actual supporting evidence; now you have the name of the bill's sponsor so you have the necessary information to educate yourself better.

and the neo-nazis only matter if you plan to use them to provoke war -- which ukraine did.

Maybe the only silver lining of this war is that many Nazi’s on both sides have been killed.

the epstein class likes neo-nazis -- that's why there are so many of them everywhere where the epstein class is in charge; including russia and ukraine.

and it further does not mean that after the beginning of the Ukrainian Civil War, that these numbers did not dramatically change in favor of secession.

Well I guess they didn't get a chance to conduct any further polls thanks to Russian bombs and bullets. But it certainly shows that before Russia started murdering people, there wasn't support for secession among Russian speakers.

I both fail to see the relevance of the point nor do I think linking a Ukrainian-state affiliated source drawing on a poll based in Kiev is particularly compelling evidence.

And now I'll just point back at my previous comment. I guess I was right, there is no evidence I can post that will successfully challenge your belief. Because if it doesn't say what you want it to say, it's not an acceptable source.

And you know what, at least I gave you the benefit of the doubt and took the effort to engage you with real sources and evidence. You couldn't even give me the same courtesy.

I want to remain on speaking terms because I don't believe you are acting in bad faith but I need a break from this thread so I'm going to bounce out. Wishing you a good day regardless.

Consider that Settler-colonialism cannot exist without class conflict. Class exploitation is the motivating driver behind genocides, slavery and apartheid.

Its core to the us vs them narrative and used as justification for imperialism.