Link: https://uk.pcmag.com/security/167356/your-computer-might-demand-your-age-soon-no-matter-where-you-live

This is unacceptable. And I’m sick of all the fucking workarounds to maintain basic privacy.

Sigh, guess it’s time to bust open a pre-code copy of ‘How to build Linux from scratch’

I fucking guess. I am at the point where I will take my children out of school if they are forced to do face scans or give any ID in order to participate and learn. I’m almost at the point where I would rather lose my job than comply with this

If it does it will be the last thing it does

Children don't usually have ID. You only need to provide ID to prove you're an adult.

i'm going to switch to devuan since systemd already pre-complied wo anyone commanding them to.

It won't. Ever. Because Linux.

If you think that some asshole won't be willing to legislate that away, think again. It might be the last refuge, but it is entirely possible to shut that down

My collection of hoarded media waits eagerly if this forces me to say goodbye to the internet outside of work obligations

I’m 100% not convinced that it will stay this way. This, to me, is a push towards ID verification. Age verification is a first step. To me, it feels more like a step towards building an infrastructure to track any user

snickers in arch linux

You can fine public orgs but it will just go underground unless they permanantly shut off all internet infrastructure which they will not do

Legislate whatever you want, you can't stop free software.

It won't but that's the way it is now.

Doubtful. The only Windows computer I have is the work laptop and they're unlikely to be worried about making corps verify their ages.

Will someone just hurry up and build a wall around the usa?

The Linux exemptions in Cali and Colorado bring up something else if that gets followed on a broader scale: Can't apps and services just start blocking Linux and start specifically demanding Windows or Mac?

torvalds is pro ai

debian is ai

ubuntu is ai

linux is conforming/selling out

I don't understand what that has to do with this conversation.

As I pointed out, and is already actively underway on mobiles with regards to GrapheneOS and LineageOS, apps and services could always start blocking Linux.

Devuan, AntiX, and MX Linux all seem worth a look for people wanting to avoid systemd. More are listed here:

https://itsfoss.com/systemd-free-distros/

https://systemdfree.com/#distros

(FWIW, I think systemd's age data collection is optional, at least for now. It's not clear which Linux distros will implement/adopt it by default.)

We're building it as fast as we can!

bust open a pre-code copy of ‘How to build Linux from scratch’

Short term, that'll help. Long term, it won't.

Sure, you can do that. Then what? If every single site requires a secure attestation from an identity service before you can use it, you re boned. Want to shop? Bank? Social media? Check the gd weather? If the site won't serve you w/o a strong identity proof, then linux won't save you. Linux will be an island.

IDK if it'll get that far. But it isn't that far fetched. Already today, I estimate 50% of site I try to use won't answer me if I totally block fingerprints and use a VPN. I'm talking mundane shit, recipes, car repair info, w/e. If I remove my privacy protections, they work fine. Nothing stops that from happening to any OS that deosn't prove a trusted ID attestation.

you can’t stop free software.

No. But you CAN stop providing any online services to free software.

G already has been moving toward requiring a "trusted OS" to get past fucking recaptcha. It isn't rolled out yet. But it could be.

Linux can't stop that, b/c it can just be blocked from everything if the trusted OS attestation isn't present.

I’m waiting for the selfie required logins. Right now, you log into YouTube or anything else with that user base and they want a selfie and a phone number. YouTube even asks for your address. You can skip. For now.

This is such a weird stance given the actual change that was made. No actual age verification, no external communication of any kind. All that got added is a number field. The ability to store a number labeled "age" for user accounts. That's it.

There already is a field for first name and last name. You can leave them blank as well (most probably do). If any software requires a number to be there, just enter 99 or whatever. Unless this gets severely worse this is such a nothing-burger.

I'm not happy about any step into that direction either, but pick your battles (or hill I guess). This certainly is a weird one.

Things will just get worse if we don't do something concrete, like organizing protest marches and petitions, going on strike, and similar.

Quoting from an episode of Slow Horses: "heavy on hashtags, light on results".

No. But you CAN stop providing any online services to free software.

Good news, I already don't do that. But lots and lots of people do without any company involved at all.

G already has been

Are you just not going to explain what "G" is?

Linux can't stop that

It...doesnt have to?

Oh well back to C64

Good news, I already don’t do that

You do it for every single thing you do online. The goal of many govs and big tech is to gate everything behind an attestation requirement. Everything.

That's the point. The initial move here is extremely weak attestation. You can just lie to it, or use an OSS OS. But they won't stop there. If everything gets gated behind strong attestation, then all those things become off limits to Linux. Sure, you can keep using your Linux box in your house. That cannot be stopped. But what CAN be stopped, is your ability to do anything whatsoever with it which requires the internet. Heck, even the ability to get a n/w connection can be gated.

No? I sure don't.

If everything gets gated behind strong attestation, then all those things become off limits to Linux

So you think everyone will just abandon free software?

Can’t apps and services just start blocking Linux and start specifically demanding Windows or Mac?

In principle? Yes. It could become a complete cryptographic attestation chain.

I don't think we're right on the edge of that rn. But years or decades from now? Who TF knows.

Won't help much when the internet requires devices be verified by Google Play or equivalent to log into any accounts or do anything.

I guess maybe you can paint pictures and self-host things on your DIY OS, but the stuff web like banking etc that integrates you into society won't be accessible.

No? I sure don’t.

You sure do. I don't think you quite realize the possible implications.

So you think everyone will just abandon free software?

Everyone? No. Ofc not. But most home users? Yes. If we ever see strong attestation gating requiring a "trusted" OS, then I expect most who use linux today would abandon it. B/c everything they want to do, won't work. But it will work with Android, IOS, Windows. Big-tech trusted platforms. Data centers and so on will be able to use Linux... by abiding the attestation reqs.

Ofc it won't be every single last person or every single use. There are offline uses for computers too. But normal ppl want to use online services with that laptop on their desk. They want to bank. Shop. Use social media. Etc.

You sure do. I don’t think you quite realize the possible implications.

I absolutely do not. I don't think you quite know what you're talking about.

Everyone? No. Ofc not. But most home users? Yes.

I'm using Linux. I don't care what "most home users" do.

But it will work with Android, IOS, Windows. Big-tech trusted platforms

We are talking about Linux. Do you not know what Linux is?

take my children out of school if they are forced to do face scans or give any ID

don't know where you live, but here in the ol' U of K, schools have been doing that sort of thing for over 20 years! I was appalled when I first heard about it, and I think it was from a friend whose kids had to give fingerprints. "Oh yes I know - big brother, but it's so convenient" was their attitude.

I could easily see things like Discord, Meta, Google, Reddit, and Twitter doing this if it came to that, for instance.

It needs a roof too.

linux no longer looks like it is likely to remain an escape route from all of this bullshit.

Giggles in Gentoo.

How do you figure?

And hypothetically that reCAPTCHA could also serve as an ID of sorts:

• Any Google account verified 18+ gets full web access.
• Any Google account 14-17 gets mildly restricted access.
• Any Google account 9-13 gets heavily restricted access.
• Any Google account 8 and under or anyone without a Google account is locked out entirely.

.... That could be a pretty effective way to completely lock down the web. And then moving everyone back to time-sharing on rented terminals will be the final nail in the coffin for personal computing. If Big Tech gets their way, personal computing could be killed off by thin clients or terminal apps connected to a rented cloud server.

no mention of guix on a systemd less distro list is crazy. not that i use guix, and im fine with systemd as a nixos user, but it feels like guix is the anti nixos. the richard stallman version of nixos with all the pros and cons that come with that

But it will work with Android, IOS, Windows. Big-tech trusted platforms

We are talking about Linux. Do you not know what Linux is?

At this point I begin to think you are simply a troll.

The point was that if those OSs work for the things normal ppl want to do, and Linux doesn't, then most ppl won't consider Linux as a viable platform, and will not use it. Under that possible future.

I’m using Linux. I don’t care what “most home users” do.

But you asked, and I am quoting you exactly,

So you think everyone will just abandon free software?

My answer was to your question. It was not about YOU personally. You asked about "everyone", so I answered. You are welcome to not care what most ppl want. But the capability to deny your linux machine so much as basic network connectivity can happen. If you want to yank the network cable and use it in your house, and you are happy with that, then great.

If you want to engage in a non-troll manner, that's fine. But I will not reply to troll type responses any further.

At this point I begin to think you are simply a troll.

Funny, I was just thinking the same.

The point was that if those OSs work for the things normal ppl want to do, and Linux doesn't,

Why wouldn't it?

But you asked, and I am quoting you exactly,

I did no such thing.

It was not about YOU personally. You asked about "everyone",

In order for me to not use it, it would have to be abandoned by everyone. That was my point.

How do you not figure?

LOL that's not how this works.

It is appalling, but I could see parents from 20 years ago being less concerned than now. Of course back then they weren’t aggregating user data to today’s level, at least I don’t think.

What bothers me too are things like Palintir. Like, I don’t want my kid in some massive police database before they even turn 12

"LOL" indeed

Oh, yeah. Like those memes with selfie logins to unlock a toilet or fridge.

You log in and then the AI agent will summarize what you're watching and contact the authorities in case it flags you suspicious? How dystopian!

Linux so far is mostly exempt and it's the big corporations like Microsoft, Apple, and Google who actually want it so they can sell that info and use it for ads. For Linux, just consider it one more criteria for choosing your distribution if it comes around. If the distro adds it as a requirement for install, then move to another. Fortunately there are lots of good ones these days.