On the other side of this, the cliche of "Simple misunderstanding we could have resolved if one party hadn't said "I don't NEED to hear your explanation!" before storming off" can fuck right off and die.

Ahhh yes, the old idiot plot. Where would we even be as a culture without it

Deriviative

Authors trying not to write a child to be a moron, getting the adults and themselves in danger and inevitably resulting into on of their deaths [challenge impossible]

All scripts of Shakespeare's comedy category that I've read are idiot plots. The characters constantly explain to the audience, but never to each other. It enables all the hijinks to unfold. So, it's been around at least that long.

For example, twins separated at birth. If the twins in the Comedy of Errors explained who they were, or if the cast once questioned either of them on their strangeness, everything could be clarified.

It extends to outside comedies, even the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet could have been avoided if Romeo had confirmed Juliet and Friar's plan, or had checked to see if she was still alive before offing himself.

WHERE

Oh sorry dude I just have ptsd from calc 1

Gotta love the “this season wouldn’t have even happened if everyone had been upfront and honest with each other.”

People do that all the time though, often to disastrous effect. Once it stops happening IRL we'll stop making art about it*.

* while it does happen all the time IRL, I think some writers use it as a shortcut to get to the plot they want to pursue without going through the character development that establishes why a character might act this way. That is lazy and annoying writing, but it doesn't invalidate the whole trope. People really are like that. Clear communication is hard work and a lot of people just don't do it a lot of the time.

About as original as this meme format

We would probably have a much higher (and more incorrect) opinion of ourselves. We're all fools, and recognizing our own foolishness reflected in art doesn't make it not so. Just makes it easier to think about.

Gotta love the ...

No, wait, it's the other thing.

Gotta hate with the burning rage of a thousand suns...

Maybe? I don't think that's where I learned to introspect from. But maybe the stakes are lower learning to socialize from stories, there could be something helpful about that

A lot of narrative stories (fiction and non) are in the format "person in situation X makes decision Y and experiences consequences Z" with the moral being "if you are in a situation like X, doing Y will have Z consequences" ("moral" in the sense of being a generalizable life lesson). I think they're an important part of how we discuss life experiences as a community, both extraordinary and mundane. And it is a lot easier to learn from stories than to experience consequences in real life. The problem is that storytellers are all humans and sometimes bad at storytelling, so care must be taken when learning from stories, and they all have to be validated against real life experience.

And then before you know it, you've become an art critic.

You're probably right. I have grown up to be pretty pretentious about art, despite how little I understood it at formative years. Other people might be shaped by their experiences with it differently than I was

Aww, I liked mine better. Didn't know it was pronounced like that

How the same art affects different people is an ongoing fascination of mine. I grew up using books to take my mind off of life, and I read voraciously. No one around me really had a high opinion of "art", and I didn't even really think of the books I read as art, at least not until I was an adult. As I get older I see more of the impact that art has had on my thinking and life, though it's still very much an ongoing project. Comparing my own experience of art to others' is why I love art criticism, especially "bad" earnest criticism. Even bad faith "criticism" is kind of interesting, in that it says something about the selfish worldview of the author, but I have limited stomach for it.

Sure, sometimes people are like that, but even if it meets the absolute minimum standards of plausibility, why on earth would I waste my time watching/reading it? It's just bad writing either way.

Relatedly: everything is art, but not everything is good.

Perfection

Can you imagine? Fucking Shakespeare I mean. I wonder if his dirty talk was in iambic pentameter too...

I don't think it's an automatic "bad writing" if a character does something that a human might do, even if it's a monumentally stupid thing to do. Humans are just like that sometimes. Sometimes it adds to a story, sometimes its incidental to an otherwise fine story, sometimes it's a lazy device to help a writer deliver pages on a deadline. Whether it's bad writing is contextual.

Re: your relatedly: I highly recommend bad art. We're appallingly bad at classifying art as "good" and "bad" to begin with, and even when we have an agreed-upon standard, most art is a mix of the two. I have found that not taking other people's opinions on art at face value has led me to some very enjoyable art.

This is why tha part of Watchmen where that blue guy just sort of sits there rules so hard. Goes to a setting and does nothing

While enjoy the occasional anime, I don't get how some people can watch so many of it. It's literally the same characters and tropes over and over again.

Nothing derivations? Dead derivation?

Everything's a plot now!

I'm gonna write a book that has none of that cliche bullshit.

...And done. Check it out:

hands you a blank piece of paper

There's a psych-thriller on Netflix called Bloodlines which I thought made a point of not using this trope. There's a character who for half a season listens to everyone, does what they tell them to, tries to make things work in a dysfunctional environment, and falls back into old habits because no one trusts him when anything goes wrong. Its a show filled with very human interactions, almost like the writers asked "what would actual people do" in every scenario, but also push the plot along.

Highly recommend it because this shit annoys me.

It could also be "individuals" or "groups" doing stuff in a "universe"?

It's a process of finding diamonds in the shit, to be sure. The genre is so saturated too. The heavy watchers I know are just at a point where they enjoy the garbage because watching garbage can be funny. I hate feeling like my time is being stolen though

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_plot

Lowers glasses to look at blank paper

• Genius!!!

Paper? How original...

That's why the only book I own is windows 95 for dummies

But had anyone ever written a sidequel to Bridget Jones following the political machinations of pegasus-riding knights in Orion’s Belt happening simultaneously with Bridget’s adventures?

Does one piece of paper constitute a book, though?

- Philosoraptor

Fold it in half. It's at least a booklet.

Gimme a couple more empty pages and I'll sew and bind you a hardcover

hello lemmy, please watch care of kancharapalem.

the less i tell you about it, the better. it is a very, very good movie experience because of the story, a story built on a house of cards that i don't want anyone knocking over before you see it, trigger warning there is 1 suicide

Watch the fuckin spoilers, dude.

I've watched Goncharov, is it something like that?

hey I'm going to be real with you right now. If you take the time to watch this film you will be deeply rewarded. i literally can't tell you why without fucking it up