Link: https://magnetmagazine.com/2009/04/08/memoir-pansy-divisions-jon-ginoli/

We had been warned of trouble looming at a show in Fairfax, Va., a conservative suburb outside Washington, D.C. The gig was at the Patriot Center at George Mason University. George Mason, a father of the Bill of Rights, refused to sign the Declaration of Independence because it didn’t guarantee enough rights and freedoms. (Were he still alive, he’d be cast out of Virginia; although its state slogan is “Virginia Is For Lovers,” in 1994, Virginia had an anti-sodomy law.) The promoter told Green Day in advance that they wouldn’t allow us to play, that we were inappropriate; Green Day’s response to the promoter was that if we didn’t play, they wouldn’t play.

The promoter backed down, but when we arrived, he pulled me aside for a lecture. In a friendly-yet-stern way, he said our material was too mature for Green Day’s young audiences. He said that there would be eight-to-12-year-olds in the crowd. I asked why he was worried about our lyrics and not Green Day’s, which also have some references that might not be suitable. And who were these kids, anyway? What parents were letting their kids go to concerts so young? I told him, if they’re that young, much of what we sing about is going to go right over their heads; they won’t get it. But they’ll know they saw a gay band, and it will get them talking one way or the other. To us, that would be a victory, meaning we’ve infiltrated Pat Robertson country. This guy kept saying things like he had a lesbian sister, that he was for gay rights, but not in these circumstances. He said he was dreading the day-after phone calls from parents. I told him I had the right to sing about it, kids had the right not to be censored, and what we sang about was part of the world we live in. Virginia was a sodomy-law state; the discrimination was written into state law. To counter years of hetero propaganda these kids had heard—and would continue to hear—a few bad words and risqué songs wouldn’t do them any harm. This discussion went in circles for 15 minutes, until I finally told him it was a waste of my time. When we played, the reception was mixed but more supportive than I’d feared; it was the only show we played with Green Day in the South.

The apex of that tour was a gig at Madison Square Garden. The show was a multi-artist extravaganza: faux-alternative station Z-100’s Christmas bash. The lineup from top to bottom: Green Day, Hole, Weezer, Melissa Etheridge, Bon Jovi (gag, choke, splutter, barf), Sheryl Crow, Toad The Wet Sprocket, the Indigo Girls and us. When Green Day found out Bon Jovi was on the bill, they were fit to be tied. This was everything we had ever fought against. This was an alternative station? Z-100 tried to throw us off the bill, but Green Day said they wouldn’t do the show if we didn’t get to play. We’ll always be grateful for the many times they stood up for us that year.

Telling a punk band they can't do something is pretty much demanding they do it.

Like ratm in the radio told not to swear

Could you please stop raging so much? It scares the machine. Thanks for your cooperation

Pansy Division (a pun on Panzer division

Wikipedia to the rescue. I was wondering if the name came from that. I actually knew of a band by that name, but it looks like that band came around after the fact in '98. Interesting.

I'm sorry I will not cooperate with you
I'm sorry I will not cooperate with you
I'm sorry I will not cooperate with you
I'm sorry I will not cooperate with you
Motherfucker

"Why can't you rage against the immigrants, queers, antifa, liberals, dei, sjw's, and jews just like jesus would've wanted?"

Meanwhile, how Jesus dealt with capitalists (aka "merchants" and "money changers"):

Ah the good old days when not all venues belonged to a single company.

I love that one. The chorus to the song is literally "fuck You, I won't do what You tell me". What did they think would happen?

Anyone here old as fuck and remember when BBC told RAtM that they aren't allowed to swear when they would play and the first words were FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!! and they were then cut off.

I remember a lot of people thought Green Day and/or Billie Joe Armstrong were gay themselves. Not "gay" like uncool, but it was "known" among certain (read: older) people that the band was gay. I thought, "like Queen? How is that even remotely a bad thing?" And went on to enjoy every Green Day album I listened to (though, like many people, I started with Dookie).

Finally saw them live about 10 years ago. I've also seen Metallica, and two foreign bands I considered my favourite or second-favourite band at one point. Nightwish, from Finland. And ONE OK ROCK from Japan. Green Day was the best show I've been to. And it's got nothing to do with whether any of the performers were gay or not, or whether some boomers in the 90s thought they were. They just put on one hell of a good show. And, for all the hate they get from the metal community, so do Five Finger Death Punch. Saw them twice (only once by choice; the other time they were at a festival we went to for other performers) and they are awesome on stage. Meanwhile, ONE OK ROCK... we drove 8 hours to see these guys and they played for an hour, got tired, and dipped out. They weren't bad on stage, they just didn't do anything special. (Apparently they do a lot more back home in Japan, but they also sell out stadiums there, so it's a different energy.)

Never been the biggest Green Day fan, but being an ally back then wasn't quite so accepted and it wasn't like they were going to get a pat on the back from social media from this.

Also worth mentioning that Etheridge had recently come out at this time. And it wasn't like she was some punk artist, you could find her getting plays on country stations. That could have been professional suicide at that time.

Christ that was 17 years ago.

Sorry we needed to get rid of that because that suddenly turned into something we were not ex- .... well we were expecting it, but we asked them not to do it and they did it anyway."

☠️

I remember a lot of people thought Green Day and/or Billie Joe Armstrong were gay themselves. Not "gay" like uncool, but it was "known" among certain (read: older) people that the band was gay.

Billie Joe is openly bisexual, and "announced" it in a 1995 interview.

They thought it will go down exactly the way it did, they just asked to have plausible deniability and to make it a better story.

James Chapter 5:

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

I saw Eminem perform the 1 year that Warped Tour had him. He was given the same instruction because it was also the first time they were televising it. They cut his mic almost immediately for swearing, he got pissed, dropped the mic on stage, and left.

Later when Pennywise performed, they brought people on stage and got the entire crowd chanting “fuck you” with their middle fingers up. That’s when they cut the live feed entirely and gave up.

Still one of the best concert experiences of my life. I wish I had video of how massive that audience was.

I'm going to be a pedantic asshole. Please ignore me. I can't help it.

1. in the story, Jesus was more concerned with the corruption of the temple. If the merchants and money changers were set up in the commercial district, they would have been fine, but they were set up in the temple.

2. Capitalism hadn't been invented yet. You've got to go forward to the Dutch East India Company or the British East India Company.

However, if he existed today, all signs seem to indicate to me that he'd be a RATM fan and a socialist.

I don't think people remember how rampent homophobia was in the 90's. Coaches called the kids gay slurs, news papers gleefully posting about politicans picked up in rest stop raids, people still thinking you could catch aids from touching or kissing. The little victories about gay characters on tv, or bands with queer coded songs must have been so empowering to kids who didnt have anywhere else to turn. The liberal position in most places was the don't ask dont tell policy, and even if they accepted you, they'd tell you to keep your mouth shut about it because it was dangerous for everyone to know.

Also, pansy division fucking rules, still play sometimes, and have incredibly funny filthy lyrics "Whipped my ass in tennis" is a banger.

i think Green Day is misunderstood as having watered down punk for the pop kids. i think what they really did is make pop for the punk kids

I'm inclined to agree. It's been a while since I read it, but I feel like the vibe of this comic is in line with your comment:

Green Day is still the best band I’ve seen live, holy fuck they rock so hard

Claiming capitalism didn't exist until it was formally invented/defined is rather fallacious.

No matter how much capitalists want to manufacture that narrative, they're splitting hairs. There is no significant difference between private orgs/individuals or landowners using their wealth to influence the system and control laws/workers/consumers under that jurisdiction, vs a monarchy and private lords/landowners using their wealth to control the laws/workers/consumers of their fiefdom. The illusion of democracy or rule of law doesn't change the underlying nature of the system, or how it operates.

For example, America is claimed to be a "capitalist" "democracy" yet in 2026 it is much closer to the same sociopathic, psychopathic, and authoritarian psychologies of the pre-democratic, pre-revolutionary fiefdom era, where a wealthy ruling class are subject to a different "rule of law" than the workers/consumers, than it is to the ideals and virtues written on paper. Acting as though the paper still applies while the president and all his accomplices are free to rape children on a private island is extremely delusional, and borderline psychotic.

Makes sense, I loved them as a kid.

Edit: Used to, still do - at least their earlier work, mainly.

Capitalism maybe had not been formulated “officially” but it still existed.

That's my take too.

Their music isn't punk in the tonal sense. It's too neat and tidy, even in the early days. But the message has always been punk as fuck. And isn't that what matters?

Point 1 is very much the case.

He was otherwise a "render unto cesar" kinda guy.

Reminds me of that scene in Something About Mary. Be interesting to see how younger generations would react to watching this.

Actually, I haven't watched that movie in over a decade. Probably hasn't aged too well. Especially with that crook Brett Favre in it.

Claiming capitalism didn't exist until it was formally invented/defined is rather fallacious.

It's like how gravity didn't exist until Newton invented it. Before then people were just floating around.

/s

Or that scene from Kids in the Hall, Brain Candy.
Several of them.

I honestly don't think they'd understand whats going on. Whens the last time you saw coverage about something like that, george michael? Maybe they'd think it was an illegal party, or some kinda grindr flash mob, but the cultural reference of raids is just gone unless your 40+.

They also switched the words of Jesus of Suburbia to support Palestine at some huge concert years ago.

Famous person in the 90s: I fuck men and women.
Media in the 90s: Confirmed gay.

It's really incredible and a testament to the general public's willingness to accept people that culture overall shifted so dramatically from casually insulting queer people to a laugh track on TV to just 10 years later federally legalizing gay marriage (via supreme court precedent and of course still not passing an actual law to make it harder to overturn, mind you) and not long after that majority opinion was already in support of queer folks

nah, mate. you're mistaken. that was just last week!

I'd argue that capitalism is an economic theory, and not an action, much like Mercantilism before it and fuedalism before that. The activities that drive the theory have to exist before the theory can be formulated, and once the theory is formulated policy and action can be built upon and guided by the theory. This can even be seen in Mercantilism being a precursor to the more refined capitalist theory. Mercantilism defined all resources as finite and all trade as a zero sum endeavor with someone needing to lose in order for another to gain. Capitalism of course shook this off as it was figured out that more trade led to more commerical activities creating more economic output.

For a parrelel, physics obviously existed before scientists were able to define various laws of physics. Plenty of inventors were able to successfully apply physics without knowing the laws of physics, but once the laws of physics were defined a lot of failed inventions that relied entirely on theories incompatible with the laws of physics stopped being built. If you look through old 19th century and earlier inventions you'll find a ton of inventions that would violate physics if they worked (most commonly the conservation of energy. Many, many unsuccessful inventions relied on adding belts and gears between a motor and its energy output to somehow increase the quantity of energy being output)

I love Pansy Division, they are the perfect mix of queer, oversexualisation and cringe!

Last, repeated words. Killing in the Name was the last song of their set and they'd only been asked not to say "fuck" live. Zack got 3 or 4 repetitions off before they were turned down, and there were still a couple more you could hear under the presenter's apology.

Killing in the Name is not even close to the only Rage song with "fuck" in it, so I guess I'm just skeptical that they made it to the last song in their set before saying it

It's like the classic story about The Doors on the Ed Sullivan Show, and before going on they told Jim Morrison that he had to censor himself (I think it was something as benign as "girl we couldn't get much higher" from Light My Fire). They gave him some lame alternative line to sing instead, and I guess he was like "yeah whatever."

Of course, when the time of the live performance came, he looked directly into the camera and sang the proper line.

When they were being ushered offstage afterwards, the producer (or Sullivan himself, I'm not sure) yells at Morrison and says something like, "The Doors will never play Ed Sullivan again!" And Morrison calmly replied, "hey man, we just did the Sullivan Show."

In Ed Sheeran's defense, fuck Ed Sheeran.

It's a testament to how important representation is. Once they started seeing themselves portrayed positively (or shit, even just neutrally) on TV and in movies, it was only a matter of time.

Which is also why racists lose their minds about casting people of color. They know how important it is.

There are records of German soldiers not killing civilians and not doing other things the Nazis ordered. They did not suffer consequences. A lot of power for far right groups and the like is from compliance. Look at them like they are stupid and say no.

I'm shocked they didn't do what they were told.

https://youtube.com/shorts/xBD1tb1_bQg

Tbw album they released right before covid was weird. It was a couple middle aged men singing about highschool. Musically, good - lyrically, weird.

Their newer stuff. Certified bangerz. The American Dream is Killing Me, should've done better than it did.

I was at a show where Billie Joe Armstrong rocked so hard he lost his voice and had to cancel his show the next night.