From the collection of made up stories.

I know this is kind of a joke but this is legitimately one of the reasons I went vegetarian. Felt very "icky" to build my body out of other dead bodies.

Or maybe they were just trying to be funny after going vegan?

How's that messed up? This is literally how the natural world works. Predators eat prey. We are the apex predator species.

Natural does not mean we should do something? Cannibalism is also natural, but we rightly find that horrible

Brushing aside moral considerations, cannibalism leads to things like kuru, so that's a no go either way.

I have no qualms eating animals, provided they weren't factory farmed.

On a related note, it's worth mentioning that factory farming is the vast majority of global meat, dairy, egg, etc, production

We estimate that over 90% of farmed animals globally are living in factory farms at present. This includes an estimated 74% of farmed land animals (vertebrates only) and virtually all farmed fish.[1]

https://www.sentienceinstitute.org/global-animal-farming-estimates

We estimate that 99% of US farmed animals are living in factory farms at present. By species, we estimate that 70.4% of cows, 98.3% of pigs, 99.8% of turkeys, 98.2% of chickens raised for eggs, and over 99.9% of chickens raised for meat are living in factory farms. Based on the confinement and living conditions of farmed fish, we estimate that virtually all US fish farms are suitably described as factory farms, though there is limited data on fish farm conditions and no standardized definition.[1] Land animal figures use data from the USDA Census of Agriculture[2] and EPA definitions of Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations.[3]

https://www.sentienceinstitute.org/us-factory-farming-estimates

That's why I prefer New Zealand or Australian lamb. Just lamb living their best lamb lives out on pastures.

Can't wait for deer season this year so I can restock on venison.

New Zealand's pasture based systems aren't exactly the idealistic visions people have of them. Even just environmentally, their attempts to scale them up have required huge amounts of fertilizer and lead to huge amounts of pollution. For instance for their dairy production:

The large footprint for milk in Canterbury indicates just how far the capacity of the environment has been overshot. To maintain that level of production and have healthy water would require either 12 times more rainfall in the region or a 12-fold reduction in cows.

[…]

The “grass-fed” marketing line overlooks the huge amounts of fossil-fuel-derived fertiliser used to make the extra grass that supports New Zealand’s very high animal stock rates.

https://theconversation.com/11-000-litres-of-water-to-make-one-litre-of-milk-new-questions-about-the-freshwater-impact-of-nz-dairy-farming-183806

That's also a bit of a peculiar feeling after being vegan for a while. My whole body consists out of plant matter and the occasional mushroom. I'm practically a plant at this point.

(Obviously irrational, though. Meat, dairy, eggs etc. are also just pre-digested plants. We'd all be practically plants by that logic.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

I recommend veganism to everyone - at least for a while- just because how different you can see farm animals. When I look inside the eyes of a pig I feel a connection. I know the kindness of this animal just by mutual respect. Try it, it feels great.

Pigs aren't vegan though. They'll eat your dead corpse in a heart beat.

I've known some real asshole pigs too, though most I've interacted with are usually pretty chill.

Damn, guess I'll just keep eating 100% factory farmed then.

Its sunlight all the way down.

You can always stop eating meat

Humans too are often cruel to one another, but we rightly don't think eating them is justified

That is the next stage of the purity test, yes, but I have a sneaking suspicion that OP wouldn't be satisfied with that either.

Due to how the US meat and dairy industry works, most US omnivores are largely corn based. You can have the carbon in your hair tested to verify this.

I was going to reply to your earlier comment, but I'm now seeing there is little interest in any good faith discussion

It sounds like you’re saying that they deserve to be eaten due to their personalities.

I became vegetarian when I saw the “How to Serve Man” episode of the Twilight Zone in high school. It horrified me and I didn’t look back.

It just sounds like a vegan wrote this story

Since your comments in this thread clearly show you aren't interested in good faith discussion in the first place, I'm perfectly happy with you not replying to my comments.

Hoards ravaging neighboring communities and killing everyone up to the children is perfectly natural for humans but you don’t have to do it.

You might underestimate the effect of suddenly thinking about something differently.

My comments, which are heavily sourced and cited, show that?

From gains to grains.

Not directly related to the post, but what is it with people getting all pissy when they find out you're vegetarian/vegan? More than once I've had someone act like I told them I punch babies for fun when they find out I don't eat meat. I don't bring it up unprompted, it's always in relation to a dietary concern. For example, I ordered a veggie dish at a restaurant, and they brought me the meat equivalent. I politely let the server know I ordered something else (apologetically I might add, because I feel like I'm being difficult to a service worker even though it's about a dietary restriction), and she acted like I was out of line. Rolling eyes, huffy, and asked me if I wanted her to take it back (um, obviously?).

This has happened to me or friends in various social settings, and I just don't get it. I even attended a cookout once where the host got mad at me for not eating his burgers. After I responded to the dietary restriction email. And brought my own dish. People act like you're being a bitch for not eating meat! I've never once pushed my diet on anyone or brought it up out of necessary contexts, but people still talk behind my back like I'm being dramatic for not eating things I don't want to.

Yup. Very, very clearly, because you refuse to even entertain the idea that any form of eating meat can be an ethical choice.

All of your comments here are obviously propaganda, and so by their very nature are not intended to be in good faith.

weirdly ive noticed alot of behavior like this even on lemmy and even in leftist communities on here. people just get really mad when a post even mentions someone being vegan. similarly i see people demonizing people who for riding bikes and i just get so confused at why they are on lemmy (a very leftist platform) if they despise commonly leftist things

The BBC has a good article on this concept

The tension that results can make us feel stressed, irritated, and unhappy. But instead of resolving it by changing our beliefs or behaviour, it’s quite normal to blame these feelings on something else entirely – all without realising we’re doing it

In the case of eating meat, Rothgerber suggests we have a number of strategies – around 15 – which allow us to avoid facing up to the meat paradox. These include pretending that meat has no link to animals, imagining that we eat less of it than we really do, wilful ignorance about how it’s produced

[...]

Unfortunately, most of these are derailed by the presence of vegans.

According to Rothgerber, people tend not to think of meat eating as an ideology. The dominance of meat eating around the world helps the omnivores among us to avoid the idea that it’s a choice – it’s just what everyone else is doing. But when a vegan turns up at a dinner party, suddenly we’re bumped out of the comfortable “mainstream diet” category and into the unsettling “meat-eating” category. By their mere existence, vegans force people to confront their cognitive dissonance. And this makes people angry.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200203-the-hidden-biases-that-drive-anti-vegan-hatred

no, it's just that calling a pig a friendly animal probably isn't the best example to use for this argument

There's a name for this in the broader sense, though riding bikes may or may not fill into this (can if it's for environmental reasons)

Do-gooder derogation is a phenomenon in moral psychology where a person's morally motivated behavior leads to them being perceived negatively by others. The term "do-gooder" refers to a person who deviates from the majority in terms of behavior, because of their morality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation

Given that any meat a normal person consumes is produced unethically in deplorable conditions, I don't think it can be the ethical choice. If you raise the animals yourself and kill them quickly and humanely, sure. Or even go hunting and eat the meat. Fish and eat the fish. Otherwise, I don't see how anyone could contend it's ethical.

My dad is a conservative red blooded american, and he rarely consumes meat because he has worked in and around a number of factory farms of varying sizes. From chickens, pigs, to cattle. It's all produced in truly abhorrent ways.

Your attitude betrays some level of cognitive dissonance imo, but what do I know, I'm just a lemming.

They are talking about the pig's intelligence and understanding of the world. They are sentient, is the point

We were talking about how dominant factory farming is, and how things that try not to do that do not scale. The response to that was to ignore this and throw up hands and say "eh, guess we can't do anything". Am I'm supposed to instead assume that one has to eat meat and ignore that we don't have to?

I don’t think it can be the ethical choice

Cool opinion bro.

I don’t see how anyone could contend it’s ethical.

And you'll certainly make sure that you stay that way, I'm sure. That's kinda the point of my above comment.

Anytime you engage in discussion without leaving open the possibility that your position could be wrong, that's propaganda, and is intentionally not engaging in good faith.

I think i'd be more apt to consider your opinion if you were less aggressive and had posited a single argument. Dismissing something with a hand wave isn't exactly a convincing argument. I'm open to hearing how you believe modern factory farming and meat consumption is ethical in your framework

edit: I even posted the ways I would find eating meat ethical -- I don't really understand the anger and hostility

We were talking about how dominant factory farming is, and how things that try not to do that do not scale.

No, that's what you were doing, and I wasn't putting up with your purity test bullshit. My response is what most people will respond with when confronted with "All of the effort you're putting in to trying to be better has been completely wasted because it's not perfect."

We're all doing what we can.

I mostly eat meat when it's served to me, but if making my own food or eating out, it's mostly vegetarian. At the same time, though, I fish and eat the fish I catch.

A friend of mine makes faces at me when I mention fishing and says stuff like how she feels bad for the poor fish. When I point out she is not a vegetarian or vegan, she just straight up says she tries not to think about it. But "poor fish" when I look at my kill directly and gut it with my own hands. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m open to hearing how you believe modern factory farming and meat consumption is ethical in your framework

I never said that I believed that. My original comment was only intended to call out OP's bullshit purity tests and the negative outcomes that will result as people grow discouraged and give up from having someone belittle what is very clearly an intentional effort to be better.

We're all doing the best we can.

There's another option you never considered: reducing consumption and reduction. I would very much say reducing consumption is a step toward a better world. I'm not going to tell someone there efforts are wasted if they're doing that, I'm going to encourage them to keep going further

We're all doing the best we can

I would hope most people are, but the reality is that we consume staggeringly more meat than ever before, by an order of magnitude. It is possible and even less expensive to consume a vegetarian diet, given you are blessed to live outside a food desert. I hold no judgement for folks existing in a terrible system and worrying about things other than animal welfare. This is a result of systems beyond the average person's control, and more than likely, knowledge.

To say that we're doing the best we can is untrue in a vacuum. Perhaps education on the topic of animal agriculture would enable people to make choices that are kinder to animals, earth, and themselves.

The evidence is pretty weak for plants, but even it that were true, it takes more plants to produce animal products than it does to eat plants. If we are concerned about plant death, it's happen even more for animal products

1 kg of meat requires 2.8 kg of human-edible feed for ruminants and 3.2 for monogastrics

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2211912416300013

I have no interest in consuming a vegetarian diet - my only ethical problem is with factory farming specifically, and on that front I'm doing the best that I can considering all of the far more important problems currently facing society.

I personally feel that convenience and personal taste is less important than the suffering of billions of animals. Your personal taste has a small impact on the total suffering, of course, but the sum of meat eaters taken together creates the demand that necessitates factory farming.

If you voluntarily consume meat given the means of accessing the alternatives, then I say the choice is not ethical. How you or anyone else personally weighs that choice against other concerns is up to you. I'm posting this from a phone more than likely made by children working untenable hours. When I discard it, it'll likely pollute a poor country. I know we have to pick our battles, so again, no judgement. I do like to discuss these things though! :)

Even though humans are the only animal that could meaningfully consent to being eaten. It's an interesting (if uncomfortable) moral quandary.