Don't bother engaging. They will not change their mind, you will not change yours. All roads lead to friction.

“Believe whatever the fuck you want.”

Well as a left progressive who has looked into California gas, and also lived there for 4 years, yeah, there are some ridiculous fees, but also some very high standards that cause higher prices, and some of it is to pay for legitimate improvements and upkeep in the state - but tell them that everyone is starting to get high gas prices that the US used to be immune from, largely thanks to oil and gas bribing politicians to keep us addicted to oil and gas and stifle modern energy production, thereby bribing politicians to keep our prices high and climbing ever higher as oil production becomes more problematic, as the world transitions away from gas and moves to electric, causing less demand eventually that would also cause higher prices just like these war related production issues do. If politicians had invested in and encouraged investment in modern energy production we would have increasing numbers of jobs in those energy sectors, not decreasing and seasonal, and prices would be lowering as solar and wind and battery tech get cheaper and cheaper. Solar is now the cheapest, and that includes compared to oil and gas.

It's not going to work, but I'd just show them the data:

• Current gas price divided up into cost of raw material and taxes applied on it
• Timeline of raw material cost and events affecting the costs

Let them decide what to believe.

"Have the day you voted for."

Tell them "Don't you understand that they are doing it especially for you. If they didn't do it, the you would not have anything to whine and moan about."

Get an EV!

Just kidding... unless...? >.>

Since there seems to be a divide between your views and your parent's, ask yourself if you think you could have a constructive discussion about the causes for high gas prices on a level playing field.

If no, do not engage. Maybe ask them to not discuss politics around/ with you to avoid building tension between each other.

If you think you can discuss this with them, go for it, but stay on topic. There's a lot to be upset about in politics no matter where you stand or what you vote. If you realize that you can't close the gap, cut your losses and change topic.

But additionally, ask yourself why it is so important to you to discuss the topic with them. Knowing where you are coming from and what you want out of this might help to protect yourself from stress.

Did they bitch about gas prices under biden and solely blame him? If so, ask what's different now. See if they can point to state level changes that affected gas prices.

This is assuming they would at least attempt a good faith argument. If not, I'd just laugh and imply they have the mentality of a child thinking they figured out the world and are dead wrong. Like listen to their inane rants and just kinda chuckle as if it's impressive they built such a convoluted plot in their head.

Unfortunately, a plurality of Americans actually believe that. There's no helping them; this is the line of bull they're being fed by their leaders and the billionaires who own the media.

Tell them your hurt to learn that they are capable of unconditional love and support. Ask them if they'd have loved you more if you raped a few children, or was racist AF.

These things do increase the price of gas. Is it more than the increase from war? I don't think so. But that part doesn't matter because they (may) think the war is good and the taxes are bad so they are willing to pay the extra for the war.

Socratic method is the only way, but it's very frustrating.

Tell them that gas prices are based on the laws of supply and demand. Thus they are going to go up faster than inflation for the foreseeable future because no new oil deposits have been found since the 1970s and all known oil deposits are heading towards depletion. Anyone who could find new viable deposits would make trillions but it appears that with over 8 trillion dollars spent on that; for profit businesses have not found any solution.

Recommending an EV and supporting renewable energy sources is the most likely solution to preventing them from dying poor.

Well, personally I would break off contact with my parents if they openly supported fascism, but other than that you can suggest they just read a book about economics or some such. Rich countries all have far higher taxes on petrol than California, and with good reason.

You can't logic someone out of something they didn't logic themselves into.

Contrasting coverage of American wars and American social programs, you´d think waging war was completely FREE. Nobody every asks, "How are we going to pay for this?"

I'm slightly more pessimistic and thinking people are hoping for a "war economy" as if that's a good thing.

Tell ‘em to move to Texas where they can have cheap gas as prohibitively expensive property taxes instead!

Maybe a war economy would be a good thing if we were sending a bulk of our population to fight a land war while we build out our industrial base. But now we we just run up the deficit buying expensive equipment from bespoke factories that don't need to hire many more people. All we end up doing is raising bond rates and crashing the economy.

Tell them to move. Living on the West Coast is a privilege. If they don't like it they are free to leave.

Also, it's not the taxes that cause the price of gas to fluctuate daily, it's supply and demand of things like crude oil. Trump's stupid war in Iran has caused oil prices to spike globally, and this is easy to prove.

(a war economy is bad because that means there is a war)

maybe something like:

"I agree with you guys, gas prices are a complex issue with many different factors affecting how much gas costs. however, gas is currently high due to how supply and demand works. a major port that exports about 20% of the globe's gasoline is now closed, causing supply to go down and demand to go up."

short, concise, factual. first sentence is key cause you agree with them, gas is complicated. but everyone can agree when there is less of something, the price of it goes up.

hope this helps

They should move to Alabama and experience the conservative rule they want. Then they should stay there.

Yes, I know, but conservatism is so stupid these days that it doesn't even work within its own moral confines. You don't have to convince conservatives that conservatism is immoral, you can convince them that conservatism is counter to its own goals.

For instance, the goal of all the US' military interventions was to maintain our hegemony. You and I, of course, could point out that the wars and sanctions kill millions of innocent people, but conservatives don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves at worst, or their tribe at best, and certainly not the lives of soldiers.

In the case for our war with Iran, all we're doing is accelerating the decline of our Empire. There is literally no valid conservative argument to made, no matter how amoral, that continuing war with Iran is a benefit to the United States. We're moving our troops out of the region, eroding our soft power, the petroyuan is coming into being, our bond rates our rising, we are losing allies, governments that supported us (House of Saud) are in existential danger, etc. Conservativism is making the US objectively a weaker nation.

There is no solution here.

In my own similar situation, I have come to the conclusion that it's bigger than any single issue. You can't reason any of these folks out of it, because a major factor is their belief that they are always, always right regardless of what the truth may be.

You can show them the math. You can cite paper after paper. You can try whatever you want and none of it will stick. Even if they claim otherwise, they think they're right and you're wrong. The closest you'll get is appeasement.

Agree, the best thing to do is to say something like "I have a life beyond politics, and I don't want to sit here talking about politics all day". Then if they insist on talking politics, leave.

The sad thing is that most of these people don't have a personality anymore, it's been completely lost to the dopamine drip that is facebook feeds. Engaging them on politics only does the same thing as on their feeds, and that gives them excitement and dopamine. If you get them to disengage they start to feel agitated, because they suddenly realize they're bored.

Tell them to get an electric vehicle.

I agree, based on my own experiences,.that no logic or reason can reach these people. I think we can move the conversation forward by admitting that there is a strong human instinct toward fascism. It's in our DNA to salute the tallest thing in the room because ancestors that didn't were purged. Those of us who can reason and maintain values are the exception to this flaw.

But is there another way to reach them on an emotional or instinctive level? Hope springs eternal in me, and I can't help but feel the solution involves denying them their group identity and making a mockery and shaming them as pariahs for their bad behavior.

These days, the fact is that no MAGA scum is a conservative. They are radical revolutionaries, more naive than the most extreme patchouli scented hippies of the 1960s, who have abandoned their Christianity to worship a man who said the constitution should be dissolved simply because he lost a court case. I think this is the key, but I must admit, I've never been able to turn one of them. Sagan was right about the deep seated human instinct to ignore shameful evidence when one is tricked.

Two options.

1. Remind them that they are stupid and that California's air quality used to be way worse before stricter fuel refinement and SMOG laws. As a Californian I can literally confirm this within my own lifetime.

2. Stop speaking to them like I've done with all the dipshit conservatives in my orbit because you'll never change them so why waste your time on lost causes? The only possible catalyst for change is them losing their loved ones due to their own ignorance but, realistically, that same ignorance will prevent them from accepting that it's their own fault.

Just make something up that you find funny. There is no point engaging in reality.

Say Newsom actually passed legislation that lowered prices act but trump over turned it because hes brought and paid for by the oil and gas lobby.

Whatever they reply just make up something that directly counters it. Let them see how it feels to try and debunk bullshit 24/7

it's been completely lost to the dopamine drip that is facebook feeds.

Yup. Social media is also a common thread. (Pun intended)

The same people who told their children not to believe everything they read on the internet are now the ones constantly believing it, to catastrophic effect. Regardless of what they feel about themselves, it really does look like many or most of these "conservatives" are basically addicted to that dopamine kick. Such addictions have just never been so impactful on the world at large before.

Yes, I also don’t talk to my parents much.

Sharing DNA does not make you obligated to keep toxic individuals in your life. Your peace of mind is more valuable than arguing with people brainwashed by billionaires. Moving on is always an option.

I love you.

Two options:

1. Link obvious rise to "no new wars" Iran Epstein War (bring up Epstein relentlessly).

2. Say it's wild how California is outsmarting Trump. Guess he's a terrible incompetent leader who cannot outsmart California let alone Iran.

You need to also start fucking with their algorithms. Inject some reality into their phones etc.

Login to their router and block the URLs for Facebook, whatever their TV provider is (since most cable tv runs through the internet nowadays), Twitter, Nextdoor, and any podcasting service you can think of.

Competing with a multi-billion dollar propaganda network as one person who they likely perpetually see as immature and uneducated is going to be like Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a mountain.

Alternatively, if they watch Fox "News", you can create a fake version of Fox with a fake Fox banner and show lefty YouTube political commentators instead. I'm sure there's some way to automate that process.

Tell them to "get good" then drink the remaining gasoline in their fuel tank without breaking eye contact to establish dominance

Plot twist: they don't live in California

“Goodbye.”

Nextdoor is a toxic waste dump.

You tell them you want something called “estrangement” because they’re fucking stupid.

If they still vote Republican, they are probably pretty low on the intelligence bell curve and must be difficult to have coherent conversations with. Option B is that they are extremely hateful and the world is collectively curious why you are still talking to them.

FWIW,

They seem to be partially correct.

wp:Gasoline and diesel usage and pricing#United States

​

wp:List of governors of California

wp:Steve Hilton#2026 California gubernatorial election

Xavier Becerra

Steve Hilton

Hilton has pledged to make significant changes to California's economy, including reducing gas prices to just $3 per gallon, lowering utility bills, and abolishing income taxes for individuals earning less than $150,000 per year.

​

It ain't like it was 40 years ago when a Republican like Reagan won California twice, including the election where he won 49 states back when he was 73 years old, whereas weak Trump couldn't even win 40%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state

​

So sad.

"Shut the fuck up. I'm not playing this game anymore. Goodbye."

All corporate-owned social media is by its very nature. They're designed to make the user angry so they stay on their platforms for longer amounts of time and therefore see more advertisements.

Oh my God you are right - I had no idea because I had an account when I lived in a poor area and it was just people organizing to help repair each other's houses, occasional lost pet alert and stuff like that, nice.

We moved to a more gentrified area and I shit you not, it was "there is a black man in the street" what the actual fuck, that's your neighbor, bitch!

Now we are in a neighborhood in the middle and I tried again, holy crap no. What a mess. Unholy mix of racist rants, political rants, religious rants, people asking for money and people complaining about their health.

Why don't you show them gas prices for the rest of the country?

"buy an ev you stupid fuckers",

The algoritm part is huge, I have read other posts about people who managed to get their parents at least partway back from the MAGA swamp by simply curating their video watch history and subscribing to cute animal channels.

I have been curating my own YT watch history for more than a decade at this point, and damn, it makes YT so much bareble.

Probably point out that it's cheaper in red states