Would software engineers ever unionise in future, if the industry keeps getting shit every year due to AI and layoffs?

My personal bet would be no. They’ll automate themselves away and slovenly play the corporate game before unionising. As a collective that is. Perhaps there’s lots to say about the culture of the profession, but I suspect it’s just too childish and spoilt.

Nope. They're too economically right wing self-absorbed to unionize.

If it was possible to create a union without interacting with each other, it would already be done.

This must be US centric yeah? I am in a union in Denmark as an engineer, and was when I was specifically a software engineer too.

I hope it can happen everywhere, it's been great for us in the few years I've been part of it.

No.

Unionize mostly occurs for working class folks, esp those working in the public sector or for a utility/infrastructure type of service.

Software Engineers are not working class people, they don't do public or utility types of work. There also is no point of collective bargaining for them as they don't have centralized skills or a centralized set of employers like most union jobs do.

I remember an old coworker said he was anti union. "I'd just find another job if I didn't like the one I had", he said. Bold claim.

Software Engineers are not working class people

You're regurgitating propaganda designed to divide us.

"Working class" mean you work for a living. If your primary source of income is selling your labor, you're working class. If you punch a clock or if you own a business where the main product is provided by your labor (electrician, plumber, small business owner), you're working class. Income doesn't matter. If you're retired, that still counts.

If your primary source of income is dividends, interest, passive income from investments or assets, or businesses where the main product is provided by the labor of others, you're not working class because you don't have to get up and go to work every day to make a living; other people have to get up and go to work every day to make your living for you.

Am tech worker. Where do I sign?

Speak for yourself. I don't feel that way. Nobody I know or work with feels that way.

LOL

Bold claim

For me it was true all my life.

That's the point where Usa (and probably China) are different than the other parts of the world.

As their jobs keep getting devalued, by AI (whether appropriate or not), and they are increasingly treated as unskilled labor, there will be more pressure to organize in order to mitigate losses in pay and benefits.

They already do in France. In the video game part of tech, too.

There also is no point of collective bargaining for them as they don't have centralized skills or a centralized set of employers like most union jobs do.

If you think "software engineers" don't have skills as comparably fungible as carpenters or factory works either you're not a programmer or your code is hot garbage.

It's also irrelevant with regards to unionization. Actors,.writers, lawyers, and doctors all have unions, and the last two are so old and so pervasive that it's easy to mistake them for something else.

I'm in one right now. There's a ton of guilds too in the US.

Got me a raise and fought a RTO sillyness.

Tech workers needed to unionize yesterday. The trillion dollar investment to automate away white collar work should have us all organizing. Unfortunately, software engineers tend to be very tepid and don't want to rock the boat. I've also found myself contracting a lot lately which gives me substantially less power to organize. But even the tendency towards contracting is one that disempowers workers and makes them feel disposable.

Unionization desperately needs to happen.

Just do the organising online

I was going to say, the Silicon Valley corporate game feels too individualistic for its players to consider unionisation

Can you share the name of your union

Unions in Denmark for developers stay away from anything that isn't directly illegal, though, so they aren't working exactly as a union. The reason was a huge scare back when Prosa had a failed strike way back that started a huge outsourcing of development, so unions stay out of the contractual stuff. They are effectively just a "legal insurance" type of organisation.

they don’t do public or utility types of work.

Never heard of digital infrastructure or the internet, huh?

Some already have. It's illegal to stop it.

Problem isn't the bunch of us, it's the one's who're getting well compensated for their work. Tech has a very uneven pay, plus it's susceptible to outsourcing. If anything Tech would require super globalized union, something that I don't think has a precent.

IDA? I mean they've helped me with contract negotiations and visa things before?

IDA, yes, it's the case for all tech unions. They will help, yes, but mostly to ensure that the contract is legal and up to par with general expectations of the tech sector, work hours, on-call, and so on. But they won't at any point take your position, only help you understand your position so you have more levy in your negotiations. In other sectors you will see that "overenskomster" has been negotiated by the unions, so e.g. all nurses get the same pay based on experience level, the same days off, the same total hours, the same overtime compensation. You thus don't need to negotiate your contract because the union already negotiated a collective contract. No one gets left behind that way. For tech you need to negotiate that yourself and you have to do it each time you change job.

And nice to know they helped with visa. I can't testify for that personally, so I didn't know they offered assistance with that.

And that was true back then, which was essentially the reason why no one bothered to organize. Tech jobs were one of the highest paying jobs and it was easy to jump ship. Now with companies (stupidly) thinking AI can replace everyone, suddenly tech jobs are no longer as secure as before. And maybe that will finally start pushing workers to organize.

Right? But it was so ... Short sighted, to think it would last forever and you'd never need to organize.

Tech Workers Coalition exists, as does IWW, though neither fit what most folks think of when they think of unions

I am in a union, and I think everyone should join or start one too. It's important to lay the groundwork for a strong union while you are still in a secure position, for the day you may not be. Like tech workers are seeing now.

I've had colleagues who don't see the need to join a union because they have such strong protection in their contract so union memberships are dwindling in some areas... those people are incredibly short-sighted and don't seem to get that a strong union got those protections into their contract before they even started the job, and a weak union can see those strengths becoming hollowed out in time.

Use your strength to protect the weak. If nothing else then because you may one day become weakened yourself.

Should we? Yes. Will we? Software Engineers are overall too prideful for that

Tech workers are more than software engineers.

the internet is owned by private companies. including all the infrastructure.

the only thing that is public is ICANN and the standards.

I used to be in one

CAIT: Collective Action in Tech and the Tech Workers Coalition are both trying. Support them as best you can.

Not necessarily rue outside of the US, some countries like Switzerland have public telecom

no, especially if they are all getting laid off, or barely getting hired. the time to do it was like 10 years ago, when they were hiring in-demand, even then laying them off will likely negate the union anyways if they arnt hiring them back.

they will just hold on to the few senior members(skeleton crew) longer, they dint lay off longer and refuse to hire new people.

its too disorganized, too many layoffs, fresh graduates and recent layoff people having to find jobs but cant. and the people currently employed in AI? isnt likely going to let go of thier jobs.

That sounds like even more reason for the workers to organize