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‘I didn’t want to write about this’: the man who first saw chimps waging civil war
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Orwi programming.dev Orwi@programming.dev
Joined: 2026-09-04
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newtraditionalists kbin.melroy.org newtraditionalists@kbin.melroy.org
Joined: 2024-06-06
#2 · Quote Reply

This was a great read, thanks for sharing!

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Nath aussie.zone Nath@aussie.zone
Joined: 2023-07-04
#3 · Quote Reply

I read the actual paper, and while I am not a member of the relevant scientific world, I was not at all stunned. In fact, the whole story felt like sequel to Jane Goodall's Chimp war of the 60's and 70's. Sure enough:

While these results are consistent with the hypothesis that kin selection affects male chimpanzee behavior (see also Morin, Moore, Chakraborty, Jin, Goodall, & Woodruff, 1994), our study also indicated that unrelated individuals cooperate frequently (Langergraber, et al., 2007).

Ok, then.

Like - sure, this is useful scientific study and does increase our knowledge of Chimps in Africa. But, I'm hardly stunned by it as well. As he himself acknowledges, it's consistent with previous studies. Is there a biologist reading this who can explain why the scientific world would be stunned by any of this? Or is this 2026 article about a paper published in 2020, expanding on papers dating back to the 1960's all a load of click-bait?

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psud aussie.zone psud@aussie.zone
Joined: 2023-07-26
#4 · Quote Reply

I read the actual paper, and while I am not a member of the relevant scientific world, I was not at all stunned. In fact, the whole story felt like sequel to Jane Goodall's Chimp war of the 60's and 70's. Sure enough: While these results are consistent with the hypothesis that kin selection affects male chimpanzee behavior (see also Morin, Moore, Chakraborty, Jin, Goodall, & Woodruff, 1994)...

Also not a biologist but I note there is a narrative that all the great apes are peaceful and that so there is something wrong with warlike humans. I don't believe it's a narrative from science, but it might be what makes this newsworthy

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xylogx lemmy.world xylogx@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-26
#5 · Quote Reply

Also not a biologist but I note there is a narrative that all the great apes are peaceful and that so there is something wrong with warlike humans. I don't believe it's a narrative from science, but it might be what makes this newsworthy

Just to add to this, I feel like we believed war was an emergent property of civilization and with sufficient progress it could be eliminated. Evidence that war occurs in nature implies a deeper underlying impulse that cannot easily be avoided.

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AliasAKA lemmy.world AliasAKA@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-08-04
#6 · Quote Reply

Just to add to this, I feel like we believed war was an emergent property of civilization and with sufficient progress it could be eliminated. Evidence that war occurs in nature implies a deeper underlying impulse that cannot easily be avoided.

In a certain way, this is encouraging. If we can uncover the underlying mechanisms driving aggressive and war like behavior in chimpanzees, we may be able to treat these behaviors in humans.

Additionally, if it’s not an emergent phenomena of civilization, it may be only sometimes emergent in evolution. If life has evolved elsewhere, it may be possible they did not evolve war or war like aggressive behavior, and thus may not have the evils we have.

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