Yes, I know, growth, duh. What's weird tho is that my E levels are kinda absurd right now (waay too high to be healthy). I've been told that can stunt growth. And I know pain doesn't necessarily equal growth. However...I think they're still growing?

Even weirder, every time my boobs hurt, it's just my left one. It seems to be a bit ahead, in terms of development, but any chest pain I get is on my left side. I don't honestly ever remember my right being sore.

Is this...okay? Should I be worried? Should they even be growing when I'm brutally overdosing myself on E? Could prolactin, which I have a lot of, be related to it?
Please help, I'm a bit worried 😭

What are your levels? I just got mines down and i was like 650. They told me that's too high but when i go lower i feel like shit.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but my trough is over 800 pg/ml. I honestly had no idea it was that high, this was not my aim. And so I'm lowering my dose ASAP

Pfft. You call that a high score? My high score is 3915 pg/mL at trough! 🤣🤣 🤣

Please don't make high E levels into a competition qwq

lmao you totally estrogenmogged her

i can't believe i just wrote that, but now i realize "transfem clavicular" would be a fantastic bit

Eh. People vastly exaggerate the dangers of high E levels. The human body can handle a lot more than hand-wringers pretend. E goes up to the 3000-9000 range for months during pregnancy. I always giggle when I hear new baby trans gals fretting over high E levels, stressing over levels in the 200-300 or even, god forbid, the 400 range. (Gasps!)

Now, when I had levels that high, it wasn't even accidental, it was purposeful! I just wanted to see what pregnancy-level E felt like. That 3915 was after a few months of 1 mL/week of 40 mg/mL EEn. 😅

Well, to be fair, that high score was in a period where I was deliberately taking high E levels. I was just curious what pregnancy-level E would feel like and what effects it would have.

This reminded me:

True. And forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your comment, but sometimes people stress out over having levels they feel are too low as well. My levels have never really exceeded 300 and I've had lots of great physical and emotional changes that can't really be perfectly quantified in numbers. I don't really feel like my levels are too low.

Comparing numbers can be fun, but what really matters is how you feel and whether you're happy with with the changes visually. But I know valuing high numbers can also be a reaction to medical gatekeeping. My wife was almost taken off HRT because, the doctor got her labs and her levels were, gasp, over 300, even though she had no adverse symptoms of anything. She only got back on because she paid to have her labs redone, but that time she skipped her morning dose. Maybe the doctors are overvaluing numbers as well? Idk, I'm not one.

well you can't just leave us hanging now, what was it like?

Biggest effects were definitely emotional. Emotions of all sorts were greatly enhances. I stopped the trial because I was starting a new job and needed to be a bit more emotionally balanced.

As far as physical effects, definitely some breast swelling and tenderness. (Any permanent effects were modest/unnoticeable.) I definitely got flush cheeks/the mask of pregnancy. And I had a dark line appear on my skin below - linea negra it's called.

I'm not saying you have to have numbers over a certain level. It's ultimately about finding levels that give you the best result and make you feel subjectively the best.

I just cringe when folks obsess over blood levels that aren't even 10% of what cis women experience during pregnancy. The body can clearly handle E levels that high. This doesn't mean you should aim for pregnancy-level E. But it does mean that it's pretty stupid for someone to scold someone else for having numbers "too high" if they're in the 300-400 range rather than the 200-300 range or lower. It's like fretting about obesity when you're debating whether to have one cracker or two with dinner.

Oh, I see what you're saying. That makes sense, I agree :)

The issue is more that medication in every way should be treated as as much as needed but as little as possible. A lot of people also don't handle repeated pregnancies well (like my mom).

But we're not talking about pregnancy. We're not actually suggesting that people do pregnancy-level E long term. I did it once on a lark to see what it felt like. My long-term numbers are more in the 300-400 range.

The point is that hormones are incredibly safe medications, far safer than most OTC medications. Searching for LD50 values for various estradiol formulations suggest numbers around 1000 mg/kg of body weight in rat studies. A typing oral E dose is in the 4-8 mg/day range. You could literally take an entire decade's worth of oral estradiol all at once, and odds are it wouldn't kill you.

I agree that you should generally aim for the lowest effective dose, but doctors and patients often fundamentally disagree on how to define that. The dichotomy I often see is:

Patients: I want the dose that maximizes masculinization/feminization and produces the absolute best physical results I can get on E/T. I know there's not studies showing superior effects and experiences in the 300-400 range vs the 100-200 range, but subjectively I feel better and anecdotally I get better results. There aren't studies I can point at to support this, as the studies haven't been done. I want to find the minimum dose to produce maximum changes.

Doctors: I practice evidence-based medicine. Research on transition-related care is horribly underfunded, but that's not my problem. What evidence I do have suggests that HRT can reduce the risk of suicide. I'll prescribe the minimum dose proven to affect suicide rates among trans people.

One approach says, "trans identities are valid and I want to help facilitate them as best I can." The other is, "trans women are at their core delusional males. However, giving them HRT is a proven way to prevent them from hurting themselves. Give them the minimum E dose to prevent self-harm."

It's far from as simple as them saying "I'll prescribe the minimum dose proven to affect suicide rates among trans people.". A lower value also is better for mentally unstable people (like it was for me). Yes I also feel better when I double my Ritalin dosage but you also shouldn't do that of less works fine too.

One approach says, "trans identities are valid and I want to help facilitate them as best I can." The other is, "trans women are at their core delusional males.

That's complete bullshit except if your doctor is ass. If anything, they won't give more E than 200 because they don't want to be a possible liability since it's understudied. But guess what, you can also just take more yourself if you don't think your doctor is right.