People who bought electric cars or take public transit:

My 30 year old truck was 8k. Fuck, it’ll take another 80k of miles on my newer Outback to break even.

Shell has been fucking all of us living in this (biological) climate. You're not special, Joe.

Bicycle riders agree.

source - Esquire magazine, ddg image

Our relationship

Gotta love people posting corporate marketing on Lemmy.

Electricity prices going up too

It’s a meme sir and most definitely fake

80,000 miles is not that much. Also keep in mind that electric cars require far less maintenance. For example, they require no oil changes and brake pads take a lot longer to wear out because most of the time, they use magnets to brake instead of the brake pads.

Fuel prices have increased far more than electric prices, and in any case, electric has always been cheaper so doubling both will double the dollar amount of the savings.

My 20 year old car was 1.8k lol, I'd have to buy one that's out of battery warranty for it to have depreciated enough to break even over 5-10 years depending on if electricity is free or not

If I could have one wish it would be decent public transit in this shithole I’m stuck in :’)

An affordable used electric/hybrid would be nice if I can’t have that though

Maybe it's regional but where I am, old Nissan Leafs from the mid 2010s can be had for a few thousand dollars.

Right, because this is definitely a flattering meme to Shell and would absolutely encourage people to buy their product.

How're the batteries on those holding up?

The tires are rough though. I need new ones on my Rivian every year and they're special and expensive. Last time we did the math I think it came out even with what we were paying for oil changes and maintenance.

I don't own a car that old, but actually, you might be shocked by how well they hold up. People immediately think electric car batteries decay like cell phone batteries, but most electric car owners don't regularly abuse the battery in the same way that cell phone users do, largely because the batteries are expected to last for over a decade and not just be replaced in two years.

These habits include:

• Rarely charging the battery past 80%, except for newer batteries that use a lithium ferrophosphate chemistry
• Not depleting the battery below 20% charge.
• Charging the battery slowly. Most cell phone chargers will fully charge the phone in two hours. Typical electric cars are charged at a rate that would take 12 to 16 hours, but overnight is enough for most people since they're only charging from 20% to 80%.
• Not exposing the battery to extreme cold or heat. The car will automatically apply A/C to the battery cells to keep them the optimal temperature.
• Warming up the battery to 20 degrees before charging.

The standard warranty length on an electric car's battery is eight years. If the battery loses more than 30% capacity in eight years, that's consider a defect, and they'll give you a new battery.

You could just get normal tyres if you want to save money.

My truck is really heavy and they said it needed tires rated for that weight :( hopefully it's not as much of an issue for smaller EVs.

Yeah but they asked about first gen Nissan Leafs which, yeah, none of those batteries are holding any type of up unless you regularly drive less than 30 miles day.

Thank god they have a choice.

Yeah they didn’t have thermal management like the rest of the full sized EVs. Even the second gen leafs have iffy ranges and charging speeds. They kinda set EVs back a bit for a lot of early adopters I know.

Yeah the right sidewalls are super important for heavier cars (like most EVs).

I had to buy larger wheels for my vintage van because they stopped selling decent tires with reinforced sidewalls in 14”. The death of the mini truck and reasonable sized vans means we all need bigger wheels or suffer with shitty noisy cheapo tires.

That's how brands market on mainstream social media these days. They either make or respond to silly posts to get people to share it.

Wow I didn't know any of this except slow charging. The ac thing is pretty cool.

i have an 8kW solar system on my roof that charges my car (and e bike) through the day as well as run my house, I'm also paid for any extra kW that are fed into the grid.

I'm jealous. But pass on feeding the grid. I know it's good to be altruistic but seeing Duke Energy making 18 billion in profit makes me spiteful.

This is kind of where I'm at. I want an EV so bad but it's too expensive and I need a certain type of build of a vehicle, the Slate or whatever comes close. I just want drop in EV replacements. I mean my first Jeep was like 300k miles, but I have no idea since the odometer stopped working.

Last time I checked the majority of people travel under 5 miles for most car trips.

By fuck all overall. Gas is going up more. Which always amuses me when the media cries about energy prices. I electrified years ago when the gas boiler died. Currently on like £85/month for energy and that hasn't yet factored in some more recent efficiency changes I have made.

👌👍🙄 I’m sure I’ll make up that 80k delta real quick.

Look, I'm not saying a first Gen leaf would not meet 95% of my needs and I'm not saying that I would not buy one if you could just convince my partner but I doubt the majority of Americans travel less than five miles for car trips.

It's disingenuous to say "EV batteries actually hold up fine!" and then follow it up with "Well, you don't drive that much anyway," when presented with evidence otherwise. I know you're not the OP of the other comment, but c'mon, this is a linear chain of thought.

Each trip or each day? Average commute is 30 miles a day.

But no need to really debate it, the first gen Nissan Leaf design is notorious for being pretty harsh on the battery pack, compared to most other prominent electric models that tend to do better than expected. I think it should be fine to admit that some models might not have the staying power one would have hoped. Just like sometimes happens in gasoline models.

So would this be polyamorous corporatocracy or romantically ambiguous metastatic capitalism?

Commute alone is about triple each way on average. US census has the data published. It makes sense when you consider an average car owner in the US and how big it is and how many people don't regularly use cars in densely populated major cities.

Between this comment and someone saying that tarantulas are as smart as a smart dog, I sometimes almost forget how completely out of touch with reality a lot of people here are.

After the Texas ice storm in 2021, our electricity provided added a monthly fee of like $300 for the next 20 years to all electric meters before use. Our guest house (really just an old mobile home that was on the property when we bought it) had its own pole and meter when we moved in. I disconnected that shit, upgraded the main house's meter, and ran a line from the main meter box to the guesthouse to get rid of the $300/month charge on a building using like $20/month running a fridge and keeping the AC under 90 for most of the year.

Are... Are you suggesting tarantulas aren't as smart as dogs?
-Tarantula (owns a beagle)

300 a month just in standing charges? Ouch, andi I thought my 50p or so per day was bad.

Reality, or just different countries? US has really cheap petrol to make up for it though. But sure, that stat was from the UK if it helps. Suppose it might be different in some others.

Tbh I don't even drive, growing up I couldn't afford it. I don't even know anyone who drives more than 16km a day which is the same distance I cycle to work - I do know a couple who drive the same distance I cycle, I get there faster as I can go faster than traffic jams.

Its probably somewhat location dependent, that stat is from the UK.

Marketing is not about flattering the company. It's about name recognition and associating emotions. The only thing people will take away from this meme is: 1. That it was funny (ymmv) 2. The brand name "Shell" and it's logo was associated with it.

Like it or not people don't critically analyze marketing like this and have much more impressionable memory than they would like to admit.

I am so glad I learned about the existence of Shell from this meme. I did not know that Shell existed prior this. This will absolutely change my habit of just buying fuel from whatever filling station is closest or cheapest.

Are you buying the tyres from Rivian or do you buy them from a third-party? My electric car (Chevrolet Bolt) came with regular Michelin tyres and I could replace them with whatever brand I want by taking it down to the local tyre shop.

If you're currently buying "dealer recommended" tyres, those are of course likely to be overpriced but could probably be replaced with more economical tyres that are still suitable for purpose if you asked a local tyre shop.

But I would be shocked if, comparing apples for apples, an electric pickup truck is heavy enough to run through tyres so much quicker than a regular pickup truck that the increased tyre cost would offset the cost of oil changes.

I got them from Costco, that's where we've always gone for tires. Truck weighs 8,532 lb, quite a bit unfortunately. Maybe I could get away with cheaper tires, but I don't want to risk the expensive truck, I want to take care of it properly.

I think it's gonna end up going away. The board of the electric coop is definitely getting voted out over it and the new board will probably be perfectly happy to take the asshole traders who were selling power for 10,000x its value in an emergency to court.

Draining below 20 % is no problem at all, the lower you cycle the batteries the longer they last. Lower voltage = lower degradation. A really bad, supposedly knowledgeable website originally pushed that and other nonsense with cycling 20 to 80 % or what it was. It is now getting repeated everywhere.
You can go down to 2 V (that is below 0 % SOC) and it will only damage the cell slightly faster over the next 100 cycles(!) of always(!) going down to 2 V. Going down to 3 V or 0 % SOC does nothing. Personal experience: All the batteries I ever had accidentally over-discharged recovered just fine, they were well below even 2 V. No increased leakage, no (measurable) capacity loss.
Here an actual source instead of just me japping. Look at figure 7. Even down to 1.2 V and the cells still took 50 cycles until they were at 80 % remaining capacity, so around 10x faster degradation at EXTREMELY low voltages. 0 % SOC is often 3 V, for comparison.

I assume that, since the voltage drops very rapidly at the end of discharge, that people actually ran their battery down into the ground, reverse biasing (negative voltage) the most depleted cell(s), and with that were doing the real damage in one single event in seconds. That is a very different thing and we have BMS monitoring individual cell voltages to prevent that.

While writing this the evidence I provide still feels a bit too weak, like someone counters "see lower IS worse" when consumer products, let alone proper battery packs, can not be discharged nearly that far. So here more data with a clear "line go up", so more degradation with higher SOC all the way from 0 to 100 with no anomaly at the lower end and across 3 different cell chemistries (NCA, NMC and LFP).

Your first link is temporarily not working, but you're arguing against the wrong point anyway. I accept everything you said to be true. Not depleting the battery below 20% is not because low states of charge are bad for the battery. You have already made a convincing argument that they are not. It is to keep the depth of discharge lower, which is known to be good for battery longevity, though I currently don't have a primary source for that right now because I'm not on my computer. You could get the same benefits by charging from 10% to 70% or 0% to 60%, and in those cases that might actually be better for the battery, but people like having a buffer rather than pulling up to the charger running on sparks, so that's why 20% is the recommendation.

It seems like you didn’t understand donks comment.

You may find it interesting to read up on the psychology of advertising. It’s not as cut and dry as you would think.

You're right, to celebrate I shall dump Shell™ oil onto my water supply.