Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/havensocial/haven-a-social-platform-stopping-surveillance-and-ai-theft?ref=checkout_rewards_page

I think someone didn't do the research neded.

$126k and you know he will only fork some fediverse code.

We're different! Trust us!

Doesn't look like we'll ever see the source code of this thing either

The fediverse is nice people and great tech, with a marketing problem.

My guess is they're trying to take it one step further than the fediverse, still be centralized, still monetize content which they then get a slice of.

TBH I have no issue with that. If it federates and they can make some money off building a positive community for people who are scared off by today's fediverse, why not? There's definitely still room for user friendly alternatives to the reigning algorithms. Hopefully they don't go about it evil.

And an onboarding problem.

Sounds like a step backwards then.

Picture this. Instagram but better. MONEY PLEASE

I don't hate the idea but I'm sure it will be enshittified nearly immediately .

I do have to disagree with this post, I think it's you who need more research if you really think that kickstarter suggests they haven't heard of the fediverse.

Haven: Better Instagram & YouTube, to Stop AI & Surveillance
Social media that prevents Big Tech & AI from stealing your art, your biometrics, and your privacy. We're replacing Insta and YouTube.

The fediverse does NOT prevent big tech and ai from stealing your stuff. it actually makes it easier. They just need a shell instance to subscribe to stuff and the fediverse hands everything to them for free, including your votes.

I'm all for the fediverse myself, but that's because I don't personally care about this that much. If I did, I wouldn't want to be here where we're the most vulnerable out of anywhere.

The problem is the network effect. Those 1500 backers will be walled off into his fork instead of joining and growing the existing alternatives.

Honestly that's peak coming from a new account

He did the research. This is no different than Truth Social or Gabb, where off the shelf platforms already do all these things.

If this guy hosts it all himself, and doesn't federate it, then that's literally what already exists out there. He doesn't want to leave the walled garden. He wants his own walled garden, and for you to plant flowers there.

I think someone didn’t do the research neded. (sic)

You certainly didn't.

• Plenty of artists are worried about AI being trained on their data. No fediverse "platform" protects from it.
• Plenty of artists want to have a way to monetize their work. No fediverse "platform" does it. The one that did try to do it (sub.club) shut down for insufficient interest

RIP Ryan McDonald

Fediverse… I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

"She got a penitentiary body."

As if any platform would be protection from AI.

Yes, there's some contradiction built in. The more freedom we give to users, the more that freedom can be abused by nefarious people. I don't think there's a good technical solution to this. At least not if we want it to be a public space.

And a closet right wing problem

And an anti-democratic pro annex crimea anti Palestinian genocide pro do we really need to talk about the other genocide too you’re a zionist problem

Oh and an infighting problem.

It’s a fling you meet up with on the weekend but better not get to know too well.

Fediverse is great and all, but it doesn't have any AI countermeasures.

That's a separate conversation to be had, but a network that is only meant for authenticated users can certainly offer better protections than a protocol where everything is openly published and distributed to the whole public internet.

They are going to use an LLM to make it

that project is off to a bad start in my opinion. This is their second attempt at this and they are still only asking 10k for a platform that's going to compete with YouTube? Sure they funded 100k but... where's the cash flow. Investors are not going to jump at a poisoner. Drive space cost money, and a poisoning system is also going to require gpu rendering ontop of whatever rendering is required for consumption.

Considering their primary revenue sources is intended to be user contribution via subscribers or their share of the content manager system... I really don't see how they expect to maintain sustainable

I wish them the best of luck though.

Plenty of artists are worried about Al being trained on their data. No fediverse "platform" protects from it.

I very much doubt Haven protects from AI scrubbing, either. Maybe it does today, but that's a constant cat-and-mouse game. I have doubts as to the efficacy of AI-poisoning efforts.

True, but authentication won't stop people from using AI. It's kinda moot really, because it takes only a single user to "infiltrate" the platform, take the art and feed it to AI. And as we've seen, corporations don't give a fuck because nobody can threaten them legally - at most they pay a paltry fine and continue their shittery.

Besides, the beauty of Fediverse protocols is that you don't need to federate and distribute. One could whip up a Mastodon/Lemmy/Mbin/etc. instance without any federation, just their own little safe space, and even harden it against AI - much easier than writing your own platform, protocol, clients, frontend and backend from scratch.

I dont think its possible and thus its a scam in my eyes.

The fediverse doesn't protect against AI training. Quite the opposite, in fact.

There are right wingers on the fediverse????? Where?????

Freedom is free

That means you will be abused. But your free while being abused.

There is no solution that doesn't reduce the freedom.

That's the problem with freedom, it's free.

Like 70% of new accounts end up just being old users moving instances making alts or just nuking their old profile for a new one.

This is like my 40th account this year. I nuke and change them frequently for countless reasons.

This one basically will exist till I get bored of self hosting. Then it too will be nuked.

And he wants to market it as his own, original, scratch-made, "nothing even close to this has ever only even been attempted before" creation.

And because almost nobody outside the Fediverse has ever heard about anything in the Fediverse, he'll succeed. To the point where people will laugh about Mastodon being a Haven Social rip-off because they've heard of Haven Social first and Mastodon later.

Or copy-paste GPL code, alter it and keep it closed.

Pleroma.

Or, if you ask some Mastodon fundamentalists, everything that isn't Mastodon or Pixelfed is inherently right-wing.

@Flax_vert @kingofras Your instance probably blocked the ones you're on, which may be why you can't see them.I'm closer to the center but I lean right.

And aside from these promises, they also have a bridge to sell you!

Technically allowable if isn't AGPL

Not really a lawer or anything

And all he'll do is vibecode something that will get hacked within a month.