Traitors to democracy.

I'm starting to think democracy wasn't real to begin with.

America is obviously controlled. Trump isn't a mastermind... There are obviously greater forces at play. There will be no real change when he's gone..it's the same smoke in mirrors, illusions, and manufacture pride and hope I've watched my entire life. It's like it's theater.

Personally, I feel naive for thinking any of this isn't exactly on purpose. Politics and crime are way deeper than trending marketed news used to give an alternative view of reality.

The fact that America is like this right now, is the fact America has already failed. Hell maybe me wondering if it was ever a true democracy is my psychological denial of its failure... I don't think a person can be pro democracy and pro American lifestyle at the same time, they don't seem to be able to coexist.

Yep. Wait until everyone figures out that dems are just pubs but less blatant.

What a stupid thing to think

well. not that odd.

but then, I generally trust Trump and his goobers to fuck us over in every single way they can.

One day you'll see it. Capitalism is the only king.

https://youtu.be/yuBe93FMiJc

War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength

Trump isn't a mastermind...

Read this article and substitute Hitler for trump. It’s uncanny.

Fascism doesn’t need competence to be deadly. In fact, stupidity and incompetence is more deadly.

You, sir, are a moron.

Cool, so you see no fascism in the democratic party? Who is the moron, sir?

You’re so far up your own arse, you can’t even see the difference between light and dark.

You don’t seem to know what ‘fascism’ even means, so you’re seeing it everywhere.

Sorry, child, but that word actually means something. Lemme guess, you think ’slavery’ includes wage slaves?

Such a sad exposition of your lack of education, and an admission you haven’t travelled beyond your nation’s boundaries.

I guarantee I'm older than you, but that is not relevant. Let me ask you, why is it that dems vote with pubs consistently to reinforce the military budget when we are actively supporting a genocide? Why is it that Schumer wont say shit about Omar being raided? Please tell me you know what I'm talking about.

Take note first, how quickly nothing at all is done about this, and two, that it’s not a secret as everyone knew he was going to do this, and he managed to do it anyway.

Traitors to humanity.

Loving that the ratio skews toward common sense.

O really? How old are you? Don’t be shy.

Your babbling is not helping your case.

Tell me, who was the first president you voted for? I’m so tired of ‘centrist’ bullshit.

yet another example of 'in any other administration this would be trials and hearings and impeachments', but in the US, it's just fucking tuesday.

Thanks republicans, you fuckwits have destroyed it all

America is obviously controlled. Trump isn’t a mastermind… There are obviously greater forces at play.

In brief:

1. Oligarchs, who control our media, spend money on politics. Citizens United is what to look at here.
2. Christian nationalists have been pushing for fascism, though they may not realize that's what it actually is
3. Foreign influence, particularly Russia

There's a lot fighting against our democracy. Republicans take a lot of the blame. Trump is not a direct threat per se, generally. He's too flaky. But he has caused a lot of damage.

Ok, clearly you've misunderstood me as a centrist which is hilarious. I'm further left than any US candidate and it allows me to be clearheaded about how wimpy the dems in my country are. I'll accept an apology for all the name calling, if you wanna.

Why are you trying to push both sides bullshit if you’re not a centrist?

No apologies, you’re the one being ridiculous here.

How do you think we should fix things, senpai?

I know the current state of politics has got everyone assuming the worst. Let's just start over. Hello, I am a Marxist that occasionally votes Democrat because it is better than the alternative. You?

I’m not sure you do understand. If you did, you wouldn’t be discouraging people. That’s how fascism takes us.

So you’re right, let’s start over.

What specifically would you do right now, in this climate, to fix things? Given that being negative online only helps fascists?

I would do what I currently do. Get out, protest, educate people about how their vote will affect their lives. I live in Los Angeles, and as many know its an insane battle here. The voter packet is thick as a brick. I've been walking people through where to vote and how to get there, even paying to help people get there. This election will affect many unhoused people. What are you doing? Because just voting blue isn't it, my friend.

Good, that’s all great ways to engage. I’m doing all I can, too, albeit less than that because I’m not physically able. I’m encouraging others to do those things, and I’m arguing with centrists and political nihilists where i can.

We need optimism right now, not pessimism, though. Don’t undermine your physical efforts by pushing pessimism online. Really not sure why you’re doing that.

I get that things feel bad. But don’t spread the bad, I say.

Being picky about who represents us is never pessimistic. Its our civic duty. When I say dems are pub-lite, its because most of them are. We deserve people who really differ from that conservative poison, not people who just pose. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I've been around long enough to know that the bandaid ain't the solution.

Yes, and we should be picky as fuck during the primaries. Now we’re past that, and these are the candidates we have.

Primaries are where we do that sort of infighting. Now, in the generals, we need to circle the wagons.

I hope you brought your vitriol to the primaries, because that’s where it belongs, not here.

Aight bro. Rest assured I always bring it. Wishing us the best, because we are likely on the same side here. Despite the voting. Lol. Peace.

I appreciate your passion. Peace.

Loving that status quo that got us here 100%

That doesn't mean he's not someone's bitch.

Oh absolutely. In fact, he’s everyone’s bitch. Easiest person to blackmail because he loves children and can’t help himself when the Moscow hotel room is bugged. Easy to flatter and bribe. He’s just easier than a puzzle in Highlights.

Did CISA do it?

I'll have to write a letter to their ISC2 chapter! Violating the ethics code!

Don’t undermine your physical efforts by pushing pessimism online.

Pointing out shitty things Democrats have done and holding them to account for their votes and actions is not advocating for fascism. Jesus, you guys are so damn fragile about this. This is such a huge part of why they have no incentive to actually improve. Schumer and crew know they can make bank doing what AIPAC and other lobbyist groups ask, and there will always be someone to jump up at the sign of the mildest of criticism, like saying he has been ineffective in using the power of his office to do anything other than advance the interests of Israel, and you're ready to tear people to bits over supporting fascism just because they won't disavow the facts they've seen with their very eyes.

If you think people pointing out Dems are still helping the GOP with votes for things like prolonging the illegal war in Iran, financing genocide in Gaza, or failing to speak out when their colleagues are the victims of harassment and racism from Trump and the GOP is going to depress voter turnout for them, maybe channel that effort into writing them and telling them to knock that stuff off or risk being removed from their office, rather than getting mad at the person who is literally just reporting on the actions, or conspicuous inaction, of public figures. Your politicians are ultimately responsible for their votes and actions, and those two things are supposed to help inform voters as to a politician's values, so they can make informed choices when the time does come to vote.

Keep reading this thread. My point is not that we shouldn’t point these things out. We absolutely should, and often, and most of the time.

My point is that belongs in the primaries and the rest of the year, not when we have legally narrowed options. Doing this now can only help the fascists.

There’s a lot of time to argue these nuances, but within days of a general is not that time.

Democracy is fine. Problem is the state has always been the enemy of democracy. Rather than letting the people decide for themselves. The wealthy and the connected always build systems to hold the people back.

Just look at places like California and the current situation with the wealth tax. The wealthy and connected including their own governor is trying to block it. Despite the large share of people throughout the state generally backing it. Imagine if these cities and towns were free to implement it on their own. Outside of the state's control.

Hell even cities in red states. Here in Missouri for instance. St Louis doesn't even have control of their own police force. It's been controlled at the state level for the better part of the last century. Rural and wealthy neighborhoods eagerly gobble up the wealth of these cities. Leaving them to crumble.

Imagine doing away with the federal government and the state government. Your city your town all a neighborhood all together. Having to work with your neighbors Etc. To Build a Better World you want for yourself. Cities no longer having to beg the state to do the things necessary. Able to rip out the old streets they were vivisected with during the times of white flight. Returning to walkable habitable cities. Using their own resources and taxes to improve themselves.

Now that wouldn't be Utopia either. And mayor's Etc still would be corrupted. Imagine how much more manageable that sort of corruption Etc would be. And how much better it would be if an area of people with similar goals and means were able to decide for themselves. And not some disconnected uninterested people who have never been to the area and never want to go to the area and never want to do anything for the area.

The rural areas would be free to ban abortion and do all the culty things they want to do. To the point they become non-existent or irrelevant. And Progressive cities in towns could build themselves in their neighbors up into strong communities. Democracy always works better when it's small

LMAO! I needed the laugh. Thanks!

There’s a lot of time to argue these nuances, but within days of X is not that time.

This is my issue, because it always changes, hence the X I put there. When we had the presidential elections, it wasn't the time, it was just too important and we needed to wait for the primaries. Primaries came here, and I was told it was a time for unity, and there were too many DSA-backed candidates (good), so it wasn't the time for criticism, we needed to circle the wagons and make sure we get a nice, safe Democrat elected. Now it's the mid-terms coming up, and it's the same thing. There is never an appropriate time to criticize the Party where there won't be some excuse.

Curiously, this courtesy seems only to be demanded from the left wings of the voter base towards the center, but not the other way around. During primaries and local elections, there was no call for other Democratic candidates to stop slandering Mamdani as anti-Semitic and accusing people supporting fascism by discouraging someone for voting for a Democrat, or when the rest of the party was dragging their feet on endorsing him when the actual elections were looming. As pointed out, Schumer is notably silent regarding Trump sending his goon squad to raid Ilhan Omar's house.

The DNC and its base stifle criticism at every opportunity, but demand the unqualified right to sling mud whenever they feel like, even towards candidates who are nominally members of the same party. This is just one of their strategies to try and shut down a left-wing takeover analogous to the Tea Party taking over the GOP not too long ago, and make sure that the current elected Democrats people are unhappy with are shielded from the consequences of their votes. Trying to silence people who point out the bad things Democrats do, even if they qualify it by saying they will still vote Democrat for the lesser option of two evils come election day, is just an incredibly dishonest way to build your base. You're just asking for people to become disillusioned when you tell them "Well, this time it will be different, we wrote Chuck a stern letter asking him to tone down his outspoken support for financing war crimes with your tax dollars," and he gets back in and keeps doing the same exact thing.

How do you expect people will believe the party has any integrity at all when people are brow beat with accusations of supporting fascism or being a Russian shill for pointing out things like Chuck Schumer using his position to help maintain policies that are increasingly unpopular with the voting public, like Chuck viewing the point of his job as watching out for Israel and making sure the Democrats never stop supporting them? I mean, he's not even up for election this time around! And when his term does come up, it will be a primary that is too important for criticism, we have to kowtow to Chuck, lest some "unelectable" candidate who says "I won't give Israel carte blanche if elected" manages to win the primary and advance to the general elections.

I’m not talking about a nebulous amount of time, I mean like within one month. I’m happy to put a limit on it. I could even be talked down to 2 weeks. I usually don’t even mention this, because unless it’s within a few days of the window, I don’t care. But now we’re in that window.

I’m not demanding this of left wingers, nor of anyone. Right wingers surely won’t listen to me of all people, and they’re a lost cause regardless. I am talking to my own ‘side’, I guess. I’m saying we should stop attacking one another for a minute if we actually want progress.

But by all means, continue.

Wait, that's illegal

I'm not trying to pin this all on your specifically, just saying that there is always someone, no matter the moment, asking for the same thing, and collectively, it shuts down dissent and helps ensure we'll be in the same situation the election after this, and so on. When there's always someone willing to shut down the discussion and make sure criticism cannot be expressed of our dear leaders, that's part of how we wind up with ghouls like Schumer in office so long after they should have already been bounced to the curb. It's the constituent version of how the Dems always have a Lieberman, Manchin or Fetterman in the Senate to make sure they can kneecap any broadly popular laws that might harm the financial interests of their patrons. It might not always be the same one, but they're always present.

Besides, I kind of doubt the sort of politically uninformed voters who are still looking at this going "Gee, I don't know. I don't like any of the policies the Republicans have implemented, but I could see myself having a beer and a burger with their candidate to be Rep for my district, but the other guy is vegan, so no burgers. I guess I'll go GOP this time," are the ones coming 10 comments deep in a political community on a niche site like Lemmy to make up their minds. Like, fair enough if you said you were doing that on facebook or something, but you're preaching to the choir here. Lemmy isn't really known for its massive right-wing voter base, outside the trolls, and you're about as likely to convince them to switch parties as you are to get the "Putin and Xi have never done anything wrong" crowd to suddenly decide they'll start unreservedly stumping for the Dems.

Democracy has always been a window dressing for control by the wealthy. Congratulations on seeing through the propaganda.

But what I don't get is even people, like the people that have replied to me here, still believe the same system...

The entire system is based on psychological manipulation and people still act like voting matters... If people are. Real about it all... Why be a part.of the foundation that's faulty? They seem to want to feed the beast they claim is the enemy and they can't understand that they are being played by the enemy.

Fuck off and make your own system then. Jesus fuck we dont need retards undermining every single fucking effort to oppose fascism with their shitty takes.

You can't have a free society when you have corporations and governments using their massive budgets on the best of psychological manipulation. This should, of course, be illegal.

Just like you wouldn't put up with an abusive spouse that lies and manipulates you. Just like you wouldn't tolerate a boss or coach that is a criminal. People in power should absolutely be held to a much higher standard.

Instead, because of liberty (AKA the rich and well connected can do whatever they want with no consequences) we live in a dystopian two-tiered society that worships money. We even have a word for it. Fuck you money, the ultimate ideal and freedom in the US.