6...7 you say?

Get out.

The problem is that they have too much debt and they can't just ignore it anymore. They can complain but they have to cut spending somewhere or increase revenue. Now they can raise the retirement age for everyone. Or they can take the money from the billionaires. But that still doesn't get you closer to lowering the deficit which is very high well over 100 percent of GDP. That means the protests are really just complaining that France doesn't have enough money but you can't keep the spending going as is without a lot of drastic cuts. All you can do is cuts now or kick the can down the road and hope something changes. Or just default on the debt and say fuck it.

Raise revenue you say? There's plenty of disgustingly wealthy people who could do with less wealth.

How does the billionaire and taxation problem in france compare to the us? I assume it's more "fair" but I know basically nothing about it

Read up on the so called Zucman-tax proposal. That would close down loopholes but it would still only fill around 10% of their deficit today, while costs will keep increasing

they can take the money from the billionaires. But that still doesn't get you closer to lowering the deficit

Username checks out

Damn... So what is the solution there? The EU bails them out (if they even can) and they try to boost the economy by... Doing what exactly?

We're basically considered a tax haven for billionaires.

The current state of French debt is manufactured to justify budget cuts left and right. We've had Macron for 10 years and the only thing he did was to add 1000 billion to it, and increase the wealth gap.

At some point we have to realise that these people are entirely responsible for the situation, and doubling down on their stupid neo liberal ideology will just make things a lot worse.

By doing what you're told to do when you get bailed out by the EU: gutting whatever welfare you've left, privatizing essential services, letting private companies dictate school syllabi etc etc

That..... Sucks....

Cut costs and weather the protests

Yeah, so raise taxes. France is like a lot of neoliberal governments around the world, pretending that raising taxes when you have a structural deficit isn't an option. Macron especially is being disingenuous here.

Socialism.

Or, we could collectively own and manage production and distribution according to a scientific plan, without needing to stuff the pockets of capitalists that dominate the entirety of society.

if Macron raise taxes the right will gain more power.
He is already on shaky ground.

They were rioters...

That is one of the weaknesses of the centrist neoliberal platform. Nothing they do is concerned with building a popular support base for tax hikes when necessary, because it's all designed around economic growth above all. It's a rare politician who can both deal with the rich and raise popular support when necessary.

Thanks for pointing out the nuance there, btw. I had indeed made it seem like a simple thing to do.

Humans are done. I don't think our civilization will make even a 1000 more years.

Humans are utter trash. Look at what billions of us have created. A society in which we ourselves don't even want to live. The human condition is not compatible with long term equilibrium and survival. We need to end ourselves sooner rather than later in hopes another organism on this planet can replace us.

Humans had so much opportunity. We fucked it all up, every single time.

This is silly, sorry. Humans are shaped by our material conditions. We remake ourselves by remaking the world. If we build a better world, we become better people. It's a mutually reinforcing relationship, moving onto socialism will make us better people.

And how do you propose to do that? In the 1000s of years since society was developed, it's been endless class warfair. Human are greedy, period. Power corrupts us. In almost ever single instance humans have done the absolute WRONG thing.

What makes you think this persistent pattern will ever change? I'm serious, why do you think that? What in our history make you believe it will happen?

Socialism already exists. Power doesn't corrupt us like some supernatural plague, this is idealist thinking that does not measure out to reality. People act in their own self-interest as a tool, but it just so happens that what's good for everyone tends to be good for the individual as well.

How does "socialisn already exists" move your point forward at all? What a joke!

When has power not corrupted people... I want three good examples please.

You are delusional, what's good for everyone, is good for trump!? Are you 'here' friend? Are you okay?

I would love for what you say to be true, but the world is bastard and it's got your number.

When has power corrupted anyone? I mean that literally, when has anyone become supernaturally evil from having an administrative position? I want 3 good examples, because I can't think of anyone being supernaturally impacted. In socialism, the majority have the same interests, towards collectivization, and against exploitation of people. The fact that socialism exists and is already remaking people proves this. The fact that humans lived communally for the vast majority of our existence means that the era of class society is an outlier, not the norm.

Take a step back and be serious, please.

No supernatural power has ever corrupted anyone in history, dictator or not. You keep talking about "power corrupting people," but this has never happened. What is your actual point? You think it's absurd to talk about the supernatural, but that's the only way to take your point that power corrupts. How does that physically happen?

Humans are done. I don’t think our civilization will make even a 1000 more years.

Humans are utter trash. Look at what billions of us have created.

The state of the world isn't caused by billions of people. It's caused by Amerika and Europe, who love to make sure to blame everyone else for their climate destroying industries.

Correct, so what is to be done about it?

Certainly not piss and moan and throw humanity itself in the trash because, as you put it “humans are utter trash”.

You aren’t in a position to do anything right now with this attitude, it is extremely unhealthy for you and others around you.

Drop this childish, simple view of the world (reasses your framework of thinking entirely) and then work towards organization.

You can’t go thru life thinking like Light fucking Yagami. Lmao

https://redsails.org/witbd-rs-abridged/

This is what I meant up above dude. Idk if you’ll see this personally now, but if others who think this way do see this; it’s obvious that you are a mentally unhealthy person. You aren’t in a mature enough position to be seriously organizing if your tactics online are to tell people to end their lives.

It’s no wonder you think you believe that humans themselves are garbage. That works out all cool when it’s the title of a punk rock album (Dystopia fuck yeah) but not as an actual worldview for trying to reorganize society.

I’m gonna assume you’re young and/or just reacting out of frustration for an unjust world. If you conduct yourself this way, even online, nobody is going to take you seriously.

Care to elaborate?

No? You keep ranting about something that makes no sense.

You okay?

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/67-meme-six-seven

bro really used a benjammins gif 😭😭

Power does tempt people to abuse it, and they regularly give in to that temptation. While I'm not in agreement with the person you are arguing with, I do believe people cannot be trusted with power, and therefore there need to be checks, and recourse, and the more power a person has, the more they need to be monitored rather than trusted. (Police are an example. Politicians are and example. Hollywood producers area
an example.)

There is also a selection mechanism at play. People who like to abuse power seek it out.

The French are amazing at riots. Meanwhile, the U.S. government is continuously raising the retirement age for full benefits, and nobody is doing shit about it. Remember the American Revolution, fighting against a tyrannical government? Yeah, we should pull another one of those.

If your struggling with optimism, people who overthrow the rich and create a democracy that works for the majority are much more optimistic.

global optimism chart

I am wondering myself the exact same questions. France is more socialist than most developed countries yet it has this deficit and economic output problem more than some countries that aren't as socialist. I of course want to tax the billionaires, but does anyone have numbers? Would that cover the funding gap?

How is everyone always like "either cut or tax"? Like, there's a central bank. They can just buy out the debt. They did like crazy, during the financial crisis 2009ff, then again during the pandemic. Y'all with your "cut or tax" are mixing up your personal finance with state-level finances. That's a totally different thing.

It's because the debt is so high and the cost of pensions with an aging population will increase that ,raising taxes and cutting pensions and everything the central bank could do within eu rules wouldn't be enough. The current cumulative debt is large and so is the annual deficit.

but what if the french get derailed and they get napoleon 3.0 (just joking please dont take that seriously)

How's just basically erasing all the debt not enough? Like, yeah, they can't do it on a whim (well, technically they can, because they're technically independent, but that would very quickly show how "independent" they really are), but Euro countries can just decide to make it happen, like they did before countless times.

Bye