Nice

It finally provided something of value to the inhabitants of Obersalzberg: a beautiful bonfire show.

Next up: Mar-a-Lago.

For the last 70 years it has just been a restaurant with a permanently free history exhibition (kehlsteinhaus.de) in cooperation with a bigger museum on Nazi history and their crimes (obersalzberg.de).

The people celebrating this are either clueless or Nazis themselves. They literally burned down one of the places where people could learn about the horrible Nazi history.

Yet neo Nazis still go on their fucked up little pilgrimages there.

The roof is on fire.....

Yep, two wrongs don't make a right. But no stone or board related directly to the man and not his victims. Should have been left intact. The museum of course wasn't the issue and should be rebuilt. A nice new structure with no ties to the monster other than outlining and attacking him for his atrocities.

Similarly maralago should be burnt to the ground. And redeveloped into a memorial/public toilet. Where no little fascist will want to pilgrimage.

It has an anti-Nazi history exhibition. You don't find that valuable?

I find it valuable but not much value is loss if it burns either.

It was valuable. The structure it was in wasn't. It should have been razed and not repurposed. For quite some time fascists had been making pilgrimage there to revel in the sight and sounds their hero enjoyed. And celebrate his accomplishments in the exhibition. The exhibition didn't deserve this. It was collateral damage for something overdue.

For this reason mara lago also needs to be razed ASAP as well. Nothing left there for fascists to return to. No tacky gold or grandure left. A simple brutalist monument and exhibition recounting his own narcissism, calisthenics and brutality.

Even the Allies didn't torch the place.

With regard to the allies. The United States specifically. We've never had a healthy Reckoning with our past. They gave many Nazi scientists amnesty. And the fascist themselves were inspired by our own powerful racists and fascists. Who never felt repercussions who are why we are in the position we are in today.

America has never dealt with our past. It took me way too long to realize we did in fact prosecute a genocide on American Indians. And I'm from the Indian Territories and learned about the Trail of Tears in elementary school. I can't think of knowing a single Native American in my whole life.

The thing with the Nazi scientists I can let slide, given the times. We knew our next enemy would be Russia and wanted a leg up. It was either take them under our wing or let the Soviets have 'em.

Don't feel too bad. As someone who was born into the tribe. Officially on tribal rolls. Received a settlement from the early '80s for treaties broken against our people over 100 years before. Attended a number of tribal cultural events as we tried to recover our heritage. Including my own naming ceremony. It didn't actually strike me until my late teens early twenties just what my grandmother was talking about when she spoke of Indian School.

Fortunately hers was not one of the ones you hear reported about sometimes in the northern United States and canada. But run by a different nearby tribe of the Wyandot. It was still about indoctrination and cultural Erasure to an extent. Just not the explicit tones of mass murder.

Sometimes it's Society hiding the skeletons in its closet. Other times it's parents just wanting their children to have something better and not to be focused and bitter on things that can't be changed. We couldn't have known ourselves. But just because some things didn't be changed doesn't mean others couldn't and shouldn't. Such as people's awareness of these things. The General public school education version that I got in the seventies and eighties was quite whitewashed and sterilized. And even then it was pretty bad.

The Nazi scientists however I couldn't get behind. Not because of any sympathies with Soviet Russia or the like. Just an aversion to the state. The state will always do what is easy. Rarely what is right. We had no business generally mucking around in the Cold War as we did. At best only a pyrrhic victory like Korea. Generally losing everywhere else and only increasing the death and destruction. In the end. It was the Soviets that brought themselves down. Not us or Reagan.

You're from Oklahoma and don't know any natives? How is that even possible?

The best way to prevent repeating history is to remember it. Monuments and museums oike this and Auschwitz are incredible tools for teaching history

Advocating for that erasure of Nazi history is likely only to find you allies in Nazis and Holocaust deniers

Erasing history only helps those who wish to deny it

I agree. But there are other ways of doing it.

Who's advocating for it's erasure? Was taking down Confederate monuments an erasure of their history?

That's rather the point. The genocide was very complete.

I don't care if it has a Jewish Orphanage inside. If it is still called Hitler's Eagle Nest, it is still a symbol. Burn that shit down.

Is that building history? That monument to Hitler he didn't even spend much time in? That's history?

Clear the rubble and return the peak to nature. Lay a minefield on it just in case the fucked up neo-Nazis return.

I grew up in Oklahoma and work in Oklahoma. I know nearly as many natives as I do anyone else.

You said this:

no stone or board related directly to the man and not his victims. Should have been left intact.

I disagree with you because I don't believe that history should ever be repeated. Seeing how he acted, through how he shaped the country, is important to preventing that

For example, did you know this particular location has a grand, 400 foot golden elevator?

Put yourself in the shoes of an average MAGA supported who does not agree with genocide

They'd get to Eagle's Nest, step in that golden elevator and think, "wow, this is nice. A lot like Trump's tastes."

Then They'd get top the top and see the grandeur of Eagle's Nest and the incredible view. They may never have realized Germany was quite properous during the early third reich

Then they'll get to the monument and museum portions. They'll be reminded of the 7 million dead and the horrors of genocide and authoritarians

I think that's a good event to get the gears in their head turning. Whether it's direct parallels like Hitler's gold elevator resembling Trump's affinity for gold, or the understanding that the Holocaust was only possible with the indifference of the average German who was content to live in relative luxury

Many Nazis supported Hitler because of the same mundane reasons the average person supports Trump or Putin. Promises of lower cost of living, increased income, prestige on the global stage, and most importantly a scapegoat to blame problems on

about 85 years too late.

I'm going to just gloss over your extremely naive scenario where these Nazi lovers go to the top of the elevator and then open their eyes and learn something. Cuz I mean come on.

Instead let's move on to this. This isn't hypothetical. We already know that Nazis make pilgrimages to this place. Some of them even take pictures about it and then go on to be Republican legislators. This place which was always a monument to Hitler, still is. Or was maybe hopefully. This isn't a matter of debate. You're arguing for an active Nazi Monument to which Nazis make pilgrimages.

I'm all for the museums. I'm all for the remembrances. Build them. But I don't want to keep the God damn Hitler monument. Also I don't know if you fucking noticed, but it ain't stopping history from repeating. So maybe a better way to stop history from repeating is to tear down The Monuments glorifying the history we would don't want repeated. Then build your museums.

It's called the Kehlsteinhaus, and it housed a permanent exhibition of Nazi crimes.

If only if burnt a couple decades earlier. A bit too late there mate.

Well that's the AfD's new headquarters gone...

The structure isn't an exhibition that will change a Nazis mind. Nick Fuentes and Madison Cawthorn are among many such Nazis, American specifically. Who revere or go there to be closer to Hitler and learn nothing.

There are no maga by definition that don't support genocide. There are those that won't support it publicly, but that's not the same thing.

Had the old structure been razed and a new one with no direct connection to Hitler been built. The exhibition would have been much more effective. Like I said it's become a thing among many of these Nazis to go visit there personally, to unironically celebrate hitler. And they learn nothing. Similarly when Trump dies Mar-A-Lago needs to be stripped of all valuable raw material and torn to the ground. Regardless of its past history. It's connection to Trump will be toxic and linger. They will legitimately go there to worship Him.

Nope.

You can build an anti-Nazi history exhibition nearby, or someplace else entirely. But the one thing this place was that it isn't anymore was a holy site for Neo Nazis. That's gone.

Is it worth losing the exhibition that was inside? Hell yes: the exhibition can be rebuild in Berchtesgaden next week. The Eagle's Nest can never be rebuild

Where would that be?! You near a reservation? Or are we talking about blonde-haired, blue-eyed "natives"? Because I've met plenty of those sorts.

Allies let a shit ton of nazis live too.

NE Oklahoma, near the Missouri border.

Huh! I'm from Tulsa and mom lived in AR, 6 miles south of the MO border. Surprising!

We have 9 tribes just here in Ottawa county. There's nothing surprising about it.