That's why a lot of them hate trans and want to ban it.

This is so wholesome though. People are trying to make us believe that all women in Muslim families are oppressed and that we should pass some stupid laws to limit their freedoms because of that, but the reality is what's happening in this post. This just healed a couple months worth of right-wing slander propaganda for me.

Is it though? In the eyes of this woman's mother she's being treated as a man.

Oh, I read it the wrong way round... Well forget what I said, screw this woman's family, they're mean, but still don't discriminate against Muslims it's not cool

Uhm... how? Will you explain how you arrived at extracting a positive message out of this post?

The poster is apparently MtF and passing, and their mom is recognizing that, so visually, OP should cover themselves, according to their mom's beliefs. However, the mom can't acknowledge that, as that would mean acknowledging they're a woman - which is impossible in their belief system.

I can't imagine this tension to be pleasant for the mother in any form or shape, and at best the poster could gain some form of amusement by seeing their own mother struggle in discomfort. I fail to see how that situation is a blow to conservatives, demonstrating the absence of oppression in that particular family.

See: my other comment in this thread

but still don't discriminate against Muslims it's not cool

Free yourself to discriminate against all hateful religions equally.

That't where the murdering starts

This shit is always so problematic, like the moment I speak against religion X, I'm joined by zealots of religion Y as if it's about X or Y and not about the fact people made up a genocidal psychopatic man in the sky (or a similar system) that will make them go through eternal torture if they try to be decent people

Don't discriminate against the ethnicity. All religions deserve scrutiny especially when they hurt people.

For other muslims my age I can at least talk about the Mukhannathun and gain some amount of legitimacy.

Except parents do that thing where they get absurdly offended at the idea their adult child dares teach anything; and so they just start yelling instead...

Also 9/10 people in the LGBTQ community are extra careful about NOT talking to you IRL for being middle eastern.

(Second one I do completely understand the reason for, and I am happy people are taking safety first, it just still feels a bit bad that's all)

I am a trans woman born to a Muslim family it was not fun

That’s some heartbreaking validation.

I feel like it's the hate we should be speaking against and not the religion.

You cannot fight hate with hate.

That's so isolating, I'm sorry you've had to handle that. :( You don't deserve to be treated that way.

Dont most sources agree that you can be trans as a muslim but you have to cover up? I mean it could be her parents lack of acceptence of her being trans but in some arab countries it is not only legal to be trans, they even apply the same insane rules to you as cis women which is a veeeery strange form of validation. I guess this is what you would call "transmisogyny"

As a white trans woman, while I understand the fear a lot of folks have, it's still racism and we do still need to call it out.

I get it with being awkward around someone wearing hijab or other religious clothing, I'm awkward around people wearing crosses too. But there are plenty of Muslims who are cool with us or capable of a peaceful coexistence stalemate. I'm really hopeful about people like Ilhan Omar, Zohran Mamdani, and Abdul El-Sayed changing perceptions of Muslims.

But also, holy fuck white westerners need to understand that people can be Middle Eastern and not Muslim. I've met a trans lesbian atheist who had just gotten to America from Iran as a refugee. Palestine has a Muslim majority, but still has Jewish and Christian communities. Most middle eastern countries have traditional Christian communities, some have extremely old ones with wildly divergent traditions. There's also Baha'i and Zoroastrianism and possibly even some traditional paganism. And that's without even touching on the communistic atheists (such as in the PKK) or the fact that in every society a certain portion of people will hear all the religion stuff and just, not buy any of it, whether or not they can be openly atheist or convert to what they do buy.

And that was just for people from the Middle East, which isn't all (idk if it's even most) of them in my country (USA). In 2002 most Arab Americans were Christians. Regardless though, people of middle eastern descent are just like any other descendants of immigrants. An American of middle eastern descent has the ability to find themselves embracing a much more liberal approach to Islam than their parents or to be an atheist or whatever else, just like someone who's family came over from Ireland at the same time has with their family's Catholicism.

Sorry about the rant, but I grew up in post 9/11 America and I was fortunate enough to have plenty of exposure to Middle Eastern people over the course of my early life and in addition to seeing the people everyone was losing their shit to be racist towards I got to see a lot of the beauty in their cultures. And as I mentioned earlier I've seen people who had to flee the governments and social movements people actually have a problem with, we should be welcoming those people with wide open arms, not treating them with suspicion just because they look and sound Iranian or Iraqi or whatever.

You cannot fight hate with hate.

Well you certainly can't with platitudes.

Trans inclusive misogyny is a fun mind fuck

Fuck people who impose their religious values onto others. Fuck people who feel superior due to their beliefs and try to help others "discover the truths" and "the incorrectness of their ways". But religions don't hurt people (at least the major world religions), it's people who do that. And for every religious prick, there's two others who genuinely gain something from their beliefs and aren't weird about it.

I think questioning a religion itself doesn't make sense, since all religions are irrational in some way and most of the time you can read whatever the fuck you want into the religious texts, but religious leadership deserves all the scrutiny in the world. Fuck the Vatican's anti-queer rhetoric, fuck all of the pedophile priests and fuck all of the Islamists who are trying to turn the irrational into law.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should differentiate between religions and religious assholes, lest we risk imposing the same kind of repression onto others that we are trying to protect ourselves against. And that includes acting superior to others because they believe something that we deem irrational. It would be a merrier world, could more people just keep their hands out of other's business. Which is something the mother in this post did not understand, so fuck her, but also let's be better than her.

Whoa that's a lot of text I wrote just now. It's not even really an answer to your comment anymore, but that's what I believe in, in case anybody cares.

Yeah I misread the post. I'm sorry you have to go through this kind of stuff and hope you've found a more accepting environment.

Fairsiess

This would be funny if it wasn't sad. Religion is the bane of humanity.

What are your thoughts on anti-theism, given your perspective towards religious minorities?

For me, religion is religion. Its all goobly-gook. Sure I don't hate individual believers or whatever, but I intensely despise their religion all the same.

I will say, whatever is the dominant religion of a region is always my primary concern. So in my own country, the US, Christianity is my least favored just due to its overwhelming influence, but they're all shit.

What do you mean people in the LGBTQ community don’t talk to you IRL? Do you mean that as a kind of fearing a minority thing or because they’re extra careful about the general rule of not outing people you clock?

I’m a white trans woman, but I live in a very diverse area. So the idea of avoiding someone because of their ethnicity is kinda foreign to me. Where I am, PoC are generally more respectful if not friendly to queer people than most white people are.

I wish I had a link to the rest of the screenshots from this, they had at least two more pictures of stories about the guy.

Iran pays for transition surgery. However, there is still massive discrimination.

I mean as in people assume I may be a religious extremist at first. I live in Texas so that may be different?

Yeah that’s gotta be a Texas/southern thing. I live in New York and the idea of just assuming a middle eastern seeming person is an extremist sounds ridiculous.

I would never pre-judge anyone based on only knowing their religion, because most people manage to reconcile their holy books with modern society, but I think it's wrong to say religions don't hurt people.

The misogyny and the homophobia are there, in the books, plain as day. How many queer people have grown up wracked with guilt over own "sinfulness", and put themselves through conversion therapy because of all the vile shit they internalised from those books? How many women stay with abusive men because God says wives should obey their husbands and divorce is a sin?

I've met lots of lovely Christians and Muslims, but they're lovely despite the religion AFAIAC.

If you find them please post them. I had forgotten about this guy.

Also only for binary trans women in some circumstances. Trans men and nonbinary people do not get theirs paid for.

even some traditional paganism.

Oh absolutely! It's depressingly common for Alevis escaping persecution from muslim-majority countries to come to US and promptly get grouped in with muslims before being persecuted again.

Sorry about the rant

Thank you for the rant! I loved reading through it. Remember multiple movements I honestly forgot about.

Pardon me RachelRodent, I'm familiar with the genus "Mus", but not the species "lim".

Well I'm personally pagan so I'd say I'm not a huge fan of anti theism. I also see it as just as capable of authoritarian crackdowns against personal freedom as religions are.

I'm a firm believer in secularism, including forced secular education. Religion is a personal matter and so long as I don't impede on anyone's life with my practice of it I should be free to light my incense, say my prayers, dance in front of some bonfires, and take my psychadelics in attempts to better understand the divine. And I should be free to meet up with others who are likeminded to do the same.

But also, on Islam I just have seen so many anti theists behave towards people of middle eastern descent in a way indistinguishable from were they simply racist, so I do always keep an eye out for how they act.

This was my first time going to Tumblr, but I found them.

Definitely also a fair take

I sincerely appreciate your thoughtful reply! :)

I also see it [anti-theism] as just as capable of authoritarian crackdowns against personal freedom as religions are.

Sure. I agree. I'd argue its less likely but its certainly possible.

I also see it as just as capable of authoritarian crackdowns against personal freedom as religions are.

We're on the same page here.

Religion is a personal matter and so long as I don’t impede on anyone’s life with my practice of it I should be free to light my incense, say my prayers, dance in front of some bonfires, and take my psychadelics in attempts to better understand the divine. And I should be free to meet up with others who are likeminded to do the same.

Outside of previously mentioned authoritarian regimes, an anti-theist doesn't necessarily take issue with your personal private theistic motivated decisions. Its when you actively promote religion in public that they'd take issue and if they are bold, form opposition. The issue would be, are you actively promoting your ideas? Then your religion ceases to be private.

And of course, there is the issue where 'personal' choices effect everyone. Vaccinations come to mind as an example. No person is an island.

But also, on Islam I just have seen so many anti theists behave towards people of middle eastern descent in a way indistinguishable from were they simply racist, so I do always keep an eye out for how they act.

Oh, I know there are some anti-theists who use their anti-theism for cover for their racism. Its completely fair to be aware when someone is selective about which religions they critique. In particular I find "Cultural Christian" atheists particularly loathsome.

See, sometimes you can use the ideological bigot for good. It's the inconsistent ones that poison all wells.

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch

You're a legend

This is the kind of Archie Bunker we need in our life. Just straight-up wholesome bigotry.

Most of these quotes I could imagine coming from that meme-dude, with the mullet and the pickup truck. Great conclusion, terrible path.

Yeah, I agree on when personal choices affect everyone, to a point. Specifically there must be a legitimate external harm and it shouod be remedied in the least restrictive means. I say this specifically because of the restrictions on religious drug use, both against pagans and indigenous Americans in modern day as well as against Christians in the 1920s USA (catholic priests had to be given an exception to the prohibition of alcohol for the wine served in services).

I believe I should have the freedom to express and spread my beliefs unless I'm doing direct harm by doing so, religious or otherwise. And to restrict my ability to wear religious clothing or symbols is a restriction on my freedoms.

I too am annoyed by Christian atheists. And I've been an anti theist, as well as dating one and befriending plenty since converting to paganism, so I'm not like, going to be on the warpath against y'all, but it's not like I like that y'all look down on my beliefs, which have had a noticeably positive impact on my life. I'm still a firm believer in freedom from religion, even if I do add a bit of religious zeal to some of my beliefs that overlap with my religion (such as environmentalism).

And on a practical level if you want to kill religion as much as possible antitheism is a bad banner to rally under. What you want is secularism where everyone is exposed to the idea that science is what we have evidence for and everyone else is free to have their own beliefs at home. Religion is less sticky when people know folks of all sorts of them and when it's not something that people have any reason to feel persecuted for having.

Yes, technically if they remove half or more from their holy books, and fire almost all of their leadership, and realign all teachings, and take it on themselves to genuinely reeducate their followers, and start paying the same taxes as any corp, I would have no problem with most religions.

I don't think you will find that any practitioner sees a difference between that and "your religion should be destroyed". So it just saves time to say the quick one.

You can't be for a religion that says piles of disgusting shit and just choose to ignore that part and call it good. What if a school had a math book, but half of it was porn and grotesque explicit violence?

Would you say it's ok to have kids read that math book? Would you just say "ok kids, on to geometry, but make sure to flip through all the images of anal penetration and torture!"

Religious institutions also remain uniquely great sources of written history, and the idea that maybe your own personal well-being isn't the be-all and end-all of life has historically been a hard sell. Don't get me wrong, the idea of gods is mental to me but still...

Often after wiping out the native populations record keeping and writing their own biased versions of history.