Well, no. If you're taking a stack of supposed moral allegories as fact, Lucifer was cast out for defying God, not for being naughty. Lucifer wouldn't kneel to mankind and serve them, thinking them lesser, so God tossed him out. Again, if you think myths are facts.

Look, I don't know what to tell to you "atheists." I met the devil last week and she was utterly forthright and honest in the reason for her expulsion from heaven. Clams. Paella, specifically. She has no idea where people got this rebellion thing.

I was told it was pineapple on pizza and tbh that seemed completely justified.

Last time Luci and I had a spat we sat wide eyed at a mountain of sins powerful men were excavating, looking for the true name of God. "Fuck," she noted. "Aye," I acknowledged.

I'd still vibe more with the guy who won't kneel to us - we suck.

That's medieval fanfic built over badly translated old testament passages that are talking about local kings and it's literally in the previous and next passages that they weren't talking about any angel... the only thing about being cast out is in Revelations after a war in heaven, that is said the dragon is the same as the serpent, the serpent that told humans that god lied that the fruit would kill them but instead would give us knowledge of good and evil, so literally pushed us towards developing philosophy and sciences, and that war is narrated just after god wipes a third of humanity in one go, turns the oceans into blood, send plagues, famine, beetles that sting like scorpions, and tortured the rest of humanity that for months would look for death and not find it and good were the mothers who smashed their babies against the rocks etc etc etc, that's what the dragon rose up against

“Knowledge forbidden?
Suspicious, reasonless. Why should their Lord
Envy them that? Can it be a sin to know?
Can it be death?”

― John Milton, Paradise Lost

The Woman, the Child, and the Dragon

12 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

The Woman Persecuted

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Does it say that in Revelations 13 somewhere? Because it does not say that in Revelations 12 anywhere.

Hail Satan.

hail satan

No.

Book of Job proves you wrong, Revelation proves you wrong, various references throughout Bible I won't bother to look up prove you wrong, and Jesus said that you are wrong. No Christian theologian agrees with you and no atheist theologian agrees with you. Because it's untrue, sorry.

You should probably read the Bible again (or for the first time?), perhaps annotated would be of help.

That's not how the story goes at all.

He didn't defy God; he wanted to be God.

Mankind wasn't a factor, it didn't even exist.

You'd have better luck spinning a story about a bad breakup and we're a puppy someone got out of impulse, thinking it'd fill the lonely void.

I think god is absent and satan is the one Christian’s call “god”. They’ve been duped this whole time.

God is a narcissistic fuck

Thats how it goes in NKJV. But yes, there are other versions with variations on the tale.

You have encountered Gnostic thought (and related heresies!) The Gnostics believed that the God of the Christian Old Testament was actually Satan all along. It is an interesting rabbit hole to fall down into.

Ha, the gall that mortals with brains the size of acorn squash could claim to know the divine universal plan, as if there were only one, with war their default recourse despite claiming every moral high ground within their limited sight. What a total copefest in a swamp of hypocrisy taking place on the only eden they'll ever know, only to ruin it for their own extinction.

Satan was a very minor character in The Bible.

🌕️🧑‍🚀🔫🧑‍🚀

https://www.churchofsatan.com/

Old testament god is new testament devil

Same god, just changed strategy.

Well, I'm not not gnostic. Or aagnostic, if you will.

Definitely an abusive parent

That would explain a lot of historical (and recent) behaviour by many Christians.

Ask yourself this: If he's the good guy why did he put that little bug on your screen?

It's interesting to think of the world religions that could have been, had the scales of power dipped in different directions. Gnosticism is an interesting take on Abrahamic religions, almost like a blend of Christianity and Buddhism.

There were even literal Greek Buddhists before there were Greek Christians. Heck, Christianity as we know it might not have survived without the original Greek drafts of the New Testament. There's another universe out there where the eastern Greco-Romans were way too busy with the karmic cycle and achieving enlightenment to worry about the execution of some random guy with daddy issues in the desert.

The goal is to get you to accept that "your betters" can never do wrong and when you suffer consequences it's due to a greater plan you are not privy to rather than letting you hold them accountable. The intent is to get you to accept without question the authority and judgement of the powers that be du jour, whether it's the king, the rich, the state... whatever needs to pacify you enough to keep you productive and docile. Satan therefore represents and embodies all of the human qualities of self-determination and true freedom.

No it does not.

The version of bible does not change canon, just the language/interpretation of language.

The narrative you mention does not exist canonically in any Bible.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

Sounds suspiciously like something Satan would say

Given how much thought a lot of superfans of the Bible give to him, you'd think he was the protagonist.

Maybe they're secret shippers.

Who says that was a different universe? You should understand by now how history frequently forgets such peaceful people in favor of the authoritarian de jure.

Turns out, humanity and its ilk hell bent on insisting they're so important are just cancer. Pure and simple. Terminal cancer we're all watching take hold.

this is the true question that nobody else has acknowledged

what you up to later? 😍

God that sounds like such a better world.

Yeah, i got in a bunch of trouble for that line of thinking in Sunday School.

They were, however, unable to scare the logic out of me.

What part is untrue? That god said eating the fruit would certainly kill them and the serpent said it wasn't true and they ate and didn't die and instead gained knowledge (and lived till they were like 800yo or something)? The part that god killed a third of humanity in one go and then gruesomely tortured the rest? That the dragon rose up against that genocidal maniac with an ego bigger than creation? Or that those Isaiah/Ezekiel verses that created the myth about beauty, jealousy, narcissism, etc, that shaped the image of Lucifer in pop culture are about the kings of Babylon/Tyre? Is it really me that should read again?

Yeah I'm pretty sure the giant Buddha statue that the Taliban blew up in Afghanistan several years ago was Greek work.

There are also plenty of accounts from (I think) the Abassid empire where Greeks and Buddhists were both present in Baghdad at the same time. I forget why that ended, maybe because of the Seljuks or the Mongols, can't remember.

And of course, there's an account in the Buddhist canon of a philosophical debate between a buddhist monk (Nagasena) and a Greek king named Menander (Milinda in Pali), which took place in the first or second century BC.

But damn... thinking about a world where Greco-Buddhism became the religion of the West... what could've been, eh?

Anyone who has done DMT knows that the Cosmic Serpent, the green lady, the insectoid creatures, the scary clowns, the machine elves . . . . while scary to us, are benevolent, welcoming and healing. I have always felt that the serpent in the tree of knowledge (Ayahuasca) was the good guy.

🤪

Namaste

puff puff .... pass bro

Ok, so now I'm wondering if Milton read the Gnostic texts. I'm still amazed that the church approved the publication of Paradise Lost, much less Paradise Regained.

Cain = Satan = same ol story through the game of telephone of history

Austrian Agricultural Nostic?

Perhaps it wasn't what you refer to as God as the founding impetus for the capacity to do those impressive things, but the insanely improbable fusion of a bacterium and archaeon to form a viable eukaryote, which would probably be very proud of its great^huge grandchildren for evolving such effective survival traits, albeit maladaptive in a finite-resource environment.

Okay so what is your denomination's version of canon? I see a lot of denial here and thats about it.

Cool.

So, basically what I'm hearing is that I was created by natural phenomenon which I'm able to observe and comprehend, but somewhere out in the cosmos there's some Great Old One whose being and plans are beyond my comprehension.

I think I'm gonna keep using my reason and senses to understand the observable world, instead of worrying about things that I have no ability to understand and no reason to believe exist.

If you think of God as just a collective narcissistic projection of human dysfunction, authoritarianism, and self-preservation, then it makes a lot more sense as to why God’s “love” seems so abusive.