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The "western hemisphere" rubs me the wrong way
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lavander lemmy.dbzer0.com lavander@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Joined: 2025-08-11
Quote

As opposed to the northern/southern hemisphere that has:

  • a clear reference point (equators)
  • traditionally we don’t model a rotation north/south

Western/eastern hemisphere

  • doesn’t have a clear reference (Greenwich?)
  • traditionally we model rotation on the north/south axis so western/eastern would depend from the time
29   Original
lavander lemmy.dbzer0.com lavander@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Joined: 2025-08-11
#2 · Quote Reply

The only explanation I have is dog whistle for some sort of “western supremacy“ 🙄

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schnurrito discuss.tchncs.de schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
Joined: 2023-06-24
#3 · Quote Reply

The prime meridian is a completely arbitrary line and the "western hemisphere" (defined in terms of it) is equally arbitrary. We need a prime meridian though, if only in order to draw the international date line on the opposite side of it.

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givesomefucks lemmy.world givesomefucks@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-30
#4 · Quote Reply

The only explanation I have is dog whistle for some sort of “western supremacy“ 🙄

It doesn't sound simpler to you that people would naturally call what's west of them "western" and what's east of them "eastern"?

Like, if you'd pick any random place they'd do it the same way

If you're mad other places adopted the European "point of view" for east/west, then logically your problem isn't with Europeans. It's the other places that just use the European definitions.

You're mad at the only group who has a logical reason to use it, instead of all the places using it for no reason except to try and fit in with Europe.

Like, if Japan said China was the West and America was the East...

Nobody would give a shit.

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kbal fedia.io kbal@fedia.io
Joined: 2023-11-03
#5 · Quote Reply

Greenwich?

Yes, that's the prime meridian, so if you're looking for exactitude in your hemispheric definition it is the one to go with. Any system of coordinates is an arbitrary choice imposed on the universe for our convenience. It may seem attractively rebellious to reject the one we have, but you're not going to gain anything but confusion by picking a different one.

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dgdft lemmy.world dgdft@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-03-26
#6 · (edited) Quote Reply

The prime meridian is a completely arbitrary line and the "western hemisphere" (defined in terms of it) is equally arbitrary. We need a prime meridian though, if only in order to draw the international date line on the opposite side of it.

The prime meridian roughly separates the two major clusters of land mass on the planet, which have undergone wildly different patterns of human settlement and development.

The line itself is arbitrary, but the concept of the hemispheres as shorthand geopolitical labels for these geographic clusters is very much not arbitrary.

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schnurrito discuss.tchncs.de schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
Joined: 2023-06-24
#7 · Quote Reply

The prime meridian roughly separates the two major clusters of land mass on the planet, which have undergone wildly different patterns of human settlement and development. The line itself is arbitrary, but the concept of the hemispheres as shorthand geopolitical labels for these geographic clusters is very much not arbitrary.

If that were the goal it would be further west so that all of Europe and Africa would be east of it.

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NarrativeBear lemmy.world NarrativeBear@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-20
#8 · (edited) Quote Reply

Phrases like the the West or Middle East make sense when all relative to Great Britain in geography.

The British had colonies all over and the terms like middle east and the west stuck. It's also a reason for the most common world map, the Mercator projection.

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0ops piefed.zip 0ops@piefed.zip
Joined: 2025-07-07
#9 · Quote Reply

I'm not sure why you're getting downvotes, I'm sure I've thought about this is the shower too at some point

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5ibelius9insterberg feddit.org 5ibelius9insterberg@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-07-22
#10 · Quote Reply

Phrases like the the West or Middle East make sense when all relative to Great Britain in geography. The British had colonies all over and the terms like middle east and the west stuck. It's also a reason for the most common world map, the Mercator projection.

To add to your comment: The Middle East is called „Naher Osten“ (close east) in German. „Der Osten“ (the east) on the other hand refers to the ex-GDR States.

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lolola lemmy.blahaj.zone lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Joined: 2023-08-15
#11 · Quote Reply

Perhaps "clear reference" isn't the issue. Both the equator and prime meridian are clearly defined.

The equator is kind of a natural landmark, arising from the tilt of the planet. Greenwich is a place built by humans. I think that's the rub.

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HenriVolney sh.itjust.works HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-17
#12 · Quote Reply

[removed by moderator]
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NABDad lemmy.world NABDad@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-12
#13 · Quote Reply

[removed by moderator]

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first known use of the term, "Western Hemisphere", is from the writings of Sir Thomas Browne in 1646.

It doesn't really make sense to blame its creation on the U.S, as it predates us by more than 100 years.

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resipsaloquitur lemmy.world resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-06-04
#14 · Quote Reply

I feel like the pacific and Atlantic Oceans are at least as real as the equator.

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boredsquirrel (he) slrpnk.net boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net
Joined: 2024-04-11
#15 · Quote Reply

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first known use of the term, "Western Hemisphere", is from the writings of Sir Thomas Browne in 1646. It doesn't really make sense to blame its creation on the U.S, as it predates us by more than 100 years.

I guess it comes from a european perspective, describing everything else as "wild west" or "near/far east"

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NABDad lemmy.world NABDad@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-12
#16 · Quote Reply

I guess it comes from a european perspective, describing everything else as "wild west" or "near/far east"

That's what I was thinking.

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shawn1122 sh.itjust.works shawn1122@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2025-06-30
#17 · (edited) Quote Reply

Phrases like the the West or Middle East make sense when all relative to Great Britain in geography. The British had colonies all over and the terms like middle east and the west stuck. It's also a reason for the most common world map, the Mercator projection.

In UN proceedings the Middle East is referred to as West Asia.

Middle East is very much a colloquial anglo/euro-centric term. We'll see if it'll stick around outside of the West, where 80% of humanity resides.

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shawn1122 sh.itjust.works shawn1122@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2025-06-30
#18 · (edited) Quote Reply

The only explanation I have is dog whistle for some sort of “western supremacy“ 🙄

There's truth to what you're saying but it also doesn't matter. If it were instead designated as "North Atlantic" or with any arbitrary label, you would still have a subgroup of those people thinking their superior and giving us phrenology, eugenics, Nazism etc and believing in _______ supremacy. The underlying problem doesn't go away.

1
essell lemmy.world essell@lemmy.world
Joined: 2024-03-28
#19 · Quote Reply

I feel like the pacific and Atlantic Oceans are at least as real as the equator.

Very different kind of real

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HenriVolney sh.itjust.works HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-17
#20 · Quote Reply

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first known use of the term, "Western Hemisphere", is from the writings of Sir Thomas Browne in 1646. It doesn't really make sense to blame its creation on the U.S, as it predates us by more than 100 years.

OK then. Let's say that Western hemisphere is a concept popularized by US exceptionalists to justify their economic, political and military domination over the Americas.

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Drusas fedia.io Drusas@fedia.io
Joined: 2024-08-16
#21 · (edited) Quote Reply

OK then. Let's say that Western hemisphere is a concept popularized by US exceptionalists to justify their economic, political and military domination over the Americas.

You can say whatever you like and be wrong at the same time. The idea of being a "western nation" and the importance thereof long predates the United States being a great power.

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Drusas fedia.io Drusas@fedia.io
Joined: 2024-08-16
#22 · Quote Reply

It doesn't sound simpler to you that people would naturally call what's west of them "western" and what's east of them "eastern"? Like, if you'd pick any random place they'd do it the same way If you're mad other places adopted the European "point of view" for east/west, then logically your problem isn't with Europeans. It's the other places that just use the European definitions. You're mad at...

See: what China calls itself

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rizlah lemmy.world rizlah@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-08-02
#23 · Quote Reply

north/south is just as arbitrary, maybe even more so.

technically the antarctic pole is the North (since the magnetic field lines exit the Earth here) and the arctic pole is technically the South (here the lines enter the Earth).

we decided to name them in reverse because it was simpler to say that "north is where the north part of the magnetic hand is pointing to".

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NABDad lemmy.world NABDad@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-12
#24 · Quote Reply

OK then. Let's say that Western hemisphere is a concept popularized by US exceptionalists to justify their economic, political and military domination over the Americas.

You can say that if you wish, but it makes you sound like you just don't want to admit you were wrong.

There's plenty to blame the U.S. for, but it's important to be honest if you want to be taken seriously.

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