Also Aus, seeing them clustered in a group of 2-4 off in a random parking bay isnt uncommon (although annoying) and seeing a single trolley a block from the shops in the grass of a park as soon as it became too hard to push any further is rare, but i do spot it from time to time.

Where I live there are spots in the parking lot to leave the shopping cart in order to minimize on foot traffic. It's better to be safe than virtue signaling.

So therefore, you think it's better for people to just chuck their trash wherever they go? Milk-cart, straight out the kitchen window. Pet bottle, right out the car window. Candy wrapper, just toss it on the ground.

You really don't need to mention the US as your example of choice. We know you're American. We can tell.

No, because rich futurists base their actions solely on the belief in a subjective theory. There are many ways to achieve what they're after, and many of those ways do not require anyone's hurt.

I didn’t say that. I said none of that. I just don’t see how a company can/should pass on their responsibility to the consumer. If the company provides trash they should be responsible to clean it up. If they provide carts, they should also clean it up. Stop taking responsibility for them.

I’m American, I recycle if I can, i carry my trash until I find a bin, hell I pick up other’s trash at the beach and in parks. But a company parking lot is not my responsibility. Let them clean up their mess. Stop being such a cuck.

Yeah, when I walk into the store, I grab them from the handicap spots. It's the only place where I say "Okay, you get a pass," when I see carts left, and so I bring em back to the store.

People being shitheads is ubiquitous, eh? Very frustrating.

They can just hire someone to go pick up trash in the ditches. Why does everyone defend the government? Just hire someone to go clean the side of the road all day long.

To which you replied

I agree

So you literally just said you agree that we shouldn't throw garbage in bins, and just have paid people go pick it up for us wherever we throw it.

You're not standing up to the grocery store by leaving your cart where-ever you please in the lot. You're fucking up for everyone else, people's cars get hit when said cart sooner or later is picked up by the wind and roll away. Carts lying around blocking the passages in the lot.

But you expect other people to go and pick up the mess you made. Like I said. You don't have to say you're American. We can tell.

The subjective theory that there will be a future? Or their subjective theory on what to do about it, which you are pitting against your own subjective theory on what to do about it? What is objective about your claim that there are many ways to help as many people as possible that don’t involve any hardships?

I agree they should hire people to pick up trash from the ditches. I never said it was okay to dump trash in the ditches. Learn to read.

People’s cars get hit, and the grocery store should be liable. It’s their parking lot, their cart, their responsibility; hell, have someone walk the groceries to everyone’s cars.

I don’t make a mess; I leave the company’s cart where they can go get it away from cars.

The real question is how did they get everyone to argue with each other about this cart nonsense when it should have always been the company’s responsibility?

Oh my god I would just leave right then

Not everyone has the luxury of not driving themselves despite whatever pain they have. There's not always a passerby around, and besides, some people just fucking suck (looking at the driver who pulled over for my sibling when their face was caved in during an accident which resulted in like over 60 nose surgeries or something. Said driver literally said "I don't have time for this, sorry" and left. Didn't even call emergency services for them).

and yet the test still applies, because given that ease, people still do not return their carts. and so the judgement becomes more stark, where the act of good becomes so easy, the benefit of the doubt all but vanishes

What do you mean "learn to read". Your response to that comment was "I agree". Did you not understand what you were agreeing to perhaps?

When you get a cart, you are borrowing it. In my part of the world. You're expected to return what you borrow. Not just leave it wherever you wish and say "it's your responsibility to get it since you borrowed it to me"

But I see you do things differently

Let's backtrack a bit: what do you mean by "rich futurists", because - apparently - it's not what I mean.

Ahh, thanks!

You give people a pass for ditching carts in the handicapped spaces?

Of course. What else could I mean?

Or a handicap person leaving it there. I don't care I put it back but if people don't who cares. Give the cart person something to do.

I used to work for a winter sports store. Skis, snowboards, winter clothes, etc.

On slow days during the week, it was often just me running the floor while I had some guys doing service work in the back. So I had a day where I was alone in front of the store, doing price changes on a rack of skis. Behind me, the only customer in the shop went through every clothing rack and meticulously removed every garment from its hanger and laid it over top of the rack. When I finally caught on to what she was doing, she said, "It looked like you needed something to do!" And then she left without buying anything.

It's been at least 15 years, and I still get livid thinking about that.

Ha, definitely unclear. The presumption is it's a person with a handicap who left it there. I know I've seen some older folks leave them at the end of the spaces and so I guess I'm more inclined to let slide someone who perhaps has some infirmity that makes walking difficult.

I meant having to hand out change/tokens when 90%+ of customers didn't really use cash.

I honestly couldn't car less about shopping carts. I want people to pick up their dog's shit for fuck sake

I'll always grab two from the corral if there are two of the same size. It's not much harder than bringing one.

There's math behind it.

Walmart: they won't even walk the cart one spot over to the car corrall.

Target: They generally return them at least to the corrall. Target lots are usually smaller and busier.

My local grocer: They'll return them if there's a corral in the current line. If they park on the outside, they'll never return them.

If the place has a small busy lot with lots of corrals and isn't poverty level shopping, most will make it back.

If it's a giant walmart with one corrall per zipcode and people that are fed up with life, they might just let it roll down the hill into traffic.

Groceries are expensive, should they just cost a $100 more for the disabled? Cause that's what round-trip Uber costs when you don't live in a city that doesn't have adequate public transportation.

Even when the bus runs it's another physical barrier to carry all those groceries. All this on top of your physical limitations making every other everyday tasks difficult and exhausting.

the shopping centers i've been going to, everyone has been returning them.

or stealing them. this fucking economy. no middle ground right now.

uh, people are very, very gross in the united states. i'm just going to leave it at that one of those chains would end up someone's butthole.

I've had a borked knee before. Sometimes you start the shopping trip and feel fine, but by the time you've covered half your list you're leaning heavily on that shopping cart for support.

I'm lucky my partner was always able to return the cart for me because I'm not sure I could have made it back to the car after returning the cart to the cart stand.

Interestingly I've read handicapped individuals prefer there to be a cart next to the handicap parking space. Save having to walk inside before getting a shopping cart that doubles as a walker.

Makes sense in my mind, could be bs though. I certainly haven't done a study.

All right, I'll just drop off my shopping cart in front of your place, kick it over, and pick up my dog's poop.

Deal?

Jesus Christ, I'm out here disenfranchising the disabled.

You just can't win in this thread, can you?

Yeah, carts don't smell and most have a coin so....

Well, I can think of at least two other interpretations off the top of my head, but I'm not really interested in explaining them to you.

At the end of the day, not everyone's dislocated knee is the same. Doubling down on your position of "oh yeah? Well I got a dislocated knee, too, buddy, and I was still able to function!" is incredibly embarrassing for you, from my perspective.

I've never not returned a cart myself.

Sorry you're such a butthurt loser over a person with a severe injury not returning their shopping cart to the corral. You sound like someone who is terrible to be around. Please never address me again.

The ironing of assuming the worst, that someone is ableist before using dehumanising language by referring to people as slime. Cant beat it. Dude was temporarily injured anyway.

Every person ever has an excuse to ditch trollies of varying validity. No one would ever answer “because I’m a lazy, inconsiderate arsehole” if asked why they left it. Which can easily explain people assuming he’s one of said people and the downvotes. As someone who’s disabled would say “Im disabled” or something to that effect, not “I hurt my knee”. Much more likely than they hold the physically disabled to the same standard or are assuming “everyone who’s disabled should have an aide”. Get a grip.

Also because they had made a completely other film called Bug Hunt at Outpost 7.

They realised that it was going to be a complete flop so they got the rights to Heinlein's worst book (and in the lead for worst scifi of all time) and gave it to Verhoeven to mangle onto the already shot Bug Hunt at Outpost 7.

Even Verhoeven agreed with me giving up on reading the book half way through it because it was so fucking awful. Both from a glorifying the fuck out of the fascists and because it was singularly one of the worst written books of all time whilst being completely and utterly self-serving.

Heinlein had big daddy issues and they come flooding through the book in a huge way. Notwithstanding the ridiculously broken plot about how his Filipino dad kicks Johnny out because he joined the military, before getting officer training (basically coz everyone dies and his the bottom of the barrel) before his home city of Manila is destroyed, but not before his dad joins and ends up a sergeant in Johnny's platoon, begging his sons forgiveness.

If you know Filipinos this is the absolutely last thing a Filipino father would ever do. They would walk on glass, render their limbs from their body before ever admitting, to their sons no less, any fault.

Fuck I hated that book like I've hated no book. The never ending slaughter, the killing of civilians (albeit aliens), the absolutely shit prose and dialogue, the boring as fuck plot. The absolute hard on for fascism. The pages and pages dedicated to shitting on civilians and sucking off the military. I have read hundreds of, probably thousands of scifi novels, shit I've read phone books that were more interesting then starship troopers.

I cannot believe that Heinlein wrote the book as some sort of dystopian allegory.

Verhoeven subverted the subtext and showed how insane a fascist government would be in the case of interstellar war.

Ableists are subhuman slime.

Not ironic, morally consistent. There is no paradox of tolerance.

Having a temporary injury still affects ability.

Crazy to expect people with difficulty moving to move more for your sake.

If they are assuming "everyone who's disabled should have an aide", well, first off they're strictly wrong. And secondly? They shouldn't be making assumptions? Ever heard that saying?

I didn't make assumptions. I saw someone make ableist statements. I called them ableist. They can retract their ableism at their discretion.

Get a grip. And maybe a more thoughtful argument steeped in logic and rational objectivity.

Having a temporary injury still affects ability.

But is not disabled, by definition and therefore calling people criticising them ableist, is incorrect. Let’s try to keep this based in logic and rational objectivity.

The point that sailed over your head in your further attempt to do what passes as virtue signal by your metric, is that you’re engaging in the same behaviour you’re criticising. Judging people without attempting to understand, hence my attempt to explain they likely are not, as you accuse “assuming all disabled should have aides”. While providing potential reason for why the initial comment was downvoted. Ableism while morally bankrupt and disgusting behaviour doesn’t warrant referring to people as “subhuman slime”.

This whole chain was a roller coaster!

Trust me when I say, they don't need an unnecessary amount of work to do. They already get the shit end of the stick by bagging, getting carts, helping patrons, and anything else no one wants to do, but they're usually only in that rough of a spot because management refuses to hire additional baggers to help. The more we can do to help them, the less that's on their plate.

If you got a legit reason to not return your cart, then no problem. But if you can return it to a carroll (spelling?), you should!

Anything to help out our fellow laborers. What goes around will eventually come around for those of us who stick together! Sooner or later I hope we can build a solid coalition of laborers to push back against the robber-Barron's (spelling?) destroying our futures' for profit.

Holy shit these are some good edibles! I rest my case, your honor.

I am so worried about the book accurate version of this movie coming out.

Yeah, my husband had cerebral palsy and loved when people left carts in the handicap areas. He'd grab that and use that to walk around the store instead of a cane.

If I go into a grocery store and take a massive shit in the middle of the floor, someone will be paid to clean it up. I don’t think someone being paid is a good measure for human decency.

Neither is putting a cart away. You really shouldn’t take a shit on the floor.

Every burrito that gets delivered to your home is delivered in the best car it'll ever drive in, miracles of technology, all limo's to the burrito.

TIL - I never knew it was supposed to be a different movie originally.

As I said, Aldi's and a few other store chains use the coin and chain lock method of ensuring the carts are returned. I suspect the brake locks are more expensive, but are less of a cultural inerta barrier to break.

When I was a kid in the '80s and '90s, I didn't see either method of ensuring cart return. We just went around the lot and returned all the carts because it was something to do while out mom was in the store. Technically I think we were supposed to stay in the van, but we got bored easily and using the carts as scooters was fun.

I'm much more talking from a community standpoint. I would ask family or neighbours to help.
I'm thinking of a different cost factor as well. If one's knee is so badly hurt that walking 100m is a serious debate, I imagine it isn't as useful in an emergency brake situation.

So getting groceries might not cost 100$ more, it might cost one's life.