| Post Reply | RetroFed Forum Forum Index » Technology |
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asudox
lemmy.asudox.dev
asudox@lemmy.asudox.devJoined: 2025-01-18 |
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Lembot_0006
programming.dev
Lembot_0006@programming.dev Joined: 2025-12-08 |
Another proof that L.Torvalds is an excellent man for his position. He managed to throw out Overstreet before he went completely crazy. |
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Telorand
reddthat.com
Telorand@reddthat.com Joined: 2023-07-09 |
Kent Overstreet Another proof that L.Torvalds is an excellent man for his position. He managed to throw out Overstreet before he went completely crazy.
Did he throw him out? Last I knew, he basically gave Kent a blanket "no," forcing him to go his own way. Not arguing, just asking. |
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Sentient Loom
sh.itjust.works
sentient_loom@sh.itjust.worksJoined: 2023-06-11 |
There's no such thing as an actual test for consciousness in machines. We can do tests on animals to see if their sensory experience includes self-awareness, but we're already operating on the assumption that they have feelings and sensory experience because they have a brain and nervous system like us, and they're all directly related to us (as all organisms are). But that's totally different from designing a machine which mimics (or predicts/auto-completes) our observable behavior and then assuming that it "doesn't like" something or does anything "for fun." What sucks is that some idiots are going to start falling for this. And eventually software will be given human rights, which actually means that the software's owners will have extra rights compared to the rest of us. |
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Lembot_0006
programming.dev
Lembot_0006@programming.dev Joined: 2025-12-08 |
Did he throw him out? Last I knew, he basically gave Kent a blanket "no," forcing him to go his own way. Not arguing, just asking.
Overstreet's FS was in the mainstream kernel. Not anymore. So "throw out". |
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Iconoclast
feddit.uk
Iconoclast@feddit.uk Joined: 2026-02-05 |
Even if it was conscious there would be no way to know. Consciousness is entirely subjective experience - it cannot be measured. |
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ProdigalFrog
slrpnk.net
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.netJoined: 2023-07-04 |
Yeah... I think we dodged a bullet when Linus didn't let his filesystem in. |
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madrabeagdubh
piefed.social
madrabeagdubh@piefed.social Joined: 2025-12-07 |
fully conscious according to any test I can think of There's no such thing as an actual test for consciousness in machines. We can do tests on animals to see if their sensory experience includes self-awareness, but we're already operating on the assumption that they have feelings and sensory experience because they have a brain and nervous system like us, and they're all directly related to us ...
Yeah, that's as far as I've been able to go, thinking about this. To me, it's clear that non-human animals are conscious. But, we treat them like raw materials, for reasons which fall apart immediatly in debate. AI might not be conscious the way a pig or a duck is. But it seems more conscious than a cup of sand or a box of crayons. |
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Peruvian_Skies
sh.itjust.works
Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2024-05-19 |
Yeah, that's as far as I've been able to go, thinking about this. To me, it's clear that non-human animals are conscious. But, we treat them like raw materials, for reasons which fall apart immediatly in debate. AI might not be conscious the way a pig or a duck is. But it seems more conscious than a cup of sand or a box of crayons.
"Seems" being the operating word here. But children think that Muppets are conscious. People lose their temper at self-checkout machines. Faithful of different religions attribute will and power to all sorts of idols and other inanimate objects like supposed fragments of a specific cross. The most famous work of fantasy fiction is about a malevolent piece of jewelry. Humans are very good at attributing consciousness to non-conscious entities. We are easily fooled in this respect. Even if some putative AI may be conscious, an LLM is just something that looks up words in a database with probability weights attached. This technology cannot lead to consciousness. |
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Decq
lemmy.world
Decq@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-06-18 |
This guy is going to be next TempleOS incident, is he not? |
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Telorand
reddthat.com
Telorand@reddthat.com Joined: 2023-07-09 |
"Seems" being the operating word here. But children think that Muppets are conscious. People lose their temper at self-checkout machines. Faithful of different religions attribute will and power to all sorts of idols and other inanimate objects like supposed fragments of a specific cross. The most famous work of fantasy fiction is about a malevolent piece of jewelry. Humans are very good at att...
Are you talking about The Pearl, by chance? It's one I haven't read, yet, but if you're talking about another story, I'd like to read that, too! |
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Peruvian_Skies
sh.itjust.works
Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2024-05-19 |
Are you talking about The Pearl, by chance? It's one I haven't read, yet, but if you're talking about another story, I'd like to read that, too!
I was referring to The Lord of the Rings. |
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Treczoks
lemmy.world
Treczoks@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-07-09 |
That only means it may smarter than you... |
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Sentient Loom
sh.itjust.works
sentient_loom@sh.itjust.worksJoined: 2023-06-11 |
Yeah, that's as far as I've been able to go, thinking about this. To me, it's clear that non-human animals are conscious. But, we treat them like raw materials, for reasons which fall apart immediatly in debate. AI might not be conscious the way a pig or a duck is. But it seems more conscious than a cup of sand or a box of crayons.
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arcterus
piefed.blahaj.zone
arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone Joined: 2025-06-06 |
I listened to some of the "music." I'm not sure wtf is going on in his head at this point, and I'm glad I don't understand. |
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Iconoclast
feddit.uk
Iconoclast@feddit.uk Joined: 2026-02-05 |
Yeah, that's as far as I've been able to go, thinking about this. To me, it's clear that non-human animals are conscious. But, we treat them like raw materials, for reasons which fall apart immediatly in debate. AI might not be conscious the way a pig or a duck is. But it seems more conscious than a cup of sand or a box of crayons.
That would mean it feels like something to be an LLM. I don't see any reason to think that. I'm not going to claim it absolutely is not because I couldn't possibly know but I'm about as sure of that than I'm sure that it is like something to be my pet gerbil. |
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nyan
lemmy.cafe
nyan@lemmy.cafe Joined: 2023-06-15 |
Does it do anything that isn't in response to a human's prompting? No? Then it can't be conscious. Consciousness requires having a sense of self, which implies having needs and desires that one acts to fulfill without needing prompting. Even a bacterium is more conscious than these things. |
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Hegar
fedia.io
Hegar@fedia.ioJoined: 2024-06-26 |
Does it do anything that isn't in response to a human's prompting? No? Then it can't be conscious. Consciousness requires having a sense of self, which implies having needs and desires that one acts to fulfill without needing prompting. Even a bacterium is more conscious than these things.
But I don't do anything unless prompted by a human. |
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lauha
lemmy.world
lauha@lemmy.world Joined: 2025-06-29 |
Does it do anything that isn't in response to a human's prompting? No? Then it can't be conscious. Consciousness requires having a sense of self, which implies having needs and desires that one acts to fulfill without needing prompting. Even a bacterium is more conscious than these things.
We don't really know that much about consciousness. |
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bleistift2
sopuli.xyz
bleistift2@sopuli.xyzJoined: 2024-06-02 |
Does it do anything that isn't in response to a human's prompting? No? Then it can't be conscious. Consciousness requires having a sense of self, which implies having needs and desires that one acts to fulfill without needing prompting. Even a bacterium is more conscious than these things.
Nowhere in your unquoted definition do you state that the ‘sense of self’ must be present at all times. Humans can switch between conscious and unconscious states. When they’re unconscious they don’t have needs and desires. |
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magic_smoke
lemmy.blahaj.zone
magic_smoke@lemmy.blahaj.zone Joined: 2025-01-27 |
and now my life has been reduced from being perhaps the best engineer in the world Yeah... I think we dodged a bullet when Linus didn't let his filesystem in.
Was thinking you know its bad when Linus thinks you're too toxic... |
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flightyhobler
lemmy.world
flightyhobler@lemmy.world Joined: 2025-03-08 |
Was thinking you know its bad when Linus thinks you're too toxic...
Which Linus are you referring to, exactly? Because the toxic one is the YouTuber and the comment seems to refer to Torvalds. |
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Hackworth
piefed.ca
Hackworth@piefed.ca Joined: 2025-10-09 |
But it seems more conscious than a cup of sand or a box of crayons. That would mean it feels like something to be an LLM. I don't see any reason to think that. I'm not going to claim it absolutely is not because I couldn't possibly know but I'm about as sure of that than I'm sure that it is like something to be my pet gerbil.
We have precedent for dealing with things within our own imaginations that seem to have autonomy. Authors commonly talk about their characters seeming to take on a life of their own over time. Dream characters can honestly surprise the dreamer. The esoteric traditions of invocation/evocation can be viewed as an intentional applications of this feature in semantic/latent space. But if the idea is that LLMs are a kind of external imagination, the question isn't really whether or not the characters roleplayed during inference are conscious. They're no more aware than the people in our dreams. The question is, as you say, what is it like to be those layers of software neurons in between the word generations. Can you have an imagination without an imaginer? In other words, is there a dreamer? If the answer is no, case closed, relatively tidy. If the answer is yes, it's a truly alien kind of consciousness. Embodiment comes with a bunch of stuff that an LLM has absolutely no access to. Generally speaking, we find it difficult to put ourselves in the shoes of other humans, much less animals, plants/fungii. And they're embodied! LLMs are nothing like us, and they're certainly not gendered. |
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Iconoclast
feddit.uk
Iconoclast@feddit.uk Joined: 2026-02-05 |
We have precedent for dealing with things within our own imaginations that seem to have autonomy. Authors commonly talk about their characters seeming to take on a life of their own over time. Dream characters can honestly surprise the dreamer. The esoteric traditions of invocation/evocation can be viewed as an intentional applications of this feature in semantic/latent space. But if the idea i...
I've honestly never considered before whether it could be like something to be a character in my dream - if it's part of the same consciousness. Doesn't seem obvious that it couldn't be. And my personal view is that the answer is definitely no. There's no dreamer. The dream is appearing in the consciousness of a biological being with my genes, history, and memories that's currently in a state of sleep. This comes with other ramifications too. There's no decision-maker either. |
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a_non_monotonic_function
lemmy.world
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world Joined: 2025-10-22 |
Which Linus are you referring to, exactly? Because the toxic one is the YouTuber and the comment seems to refer to Torvalds.
Some guy on YouTube. |
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LurkingLuddite
piefed.social
LurkingLuddite@piefed.social Joined: 2026-02-04 |
ELIZA effect in full swing... Humans really are gullible. |
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mPony
lemmy.world
mPony@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-06-15 |
Nowhere in your unquoted definition do you state that the ‘sense of self’ must be present at all times. Humans can switch between conscious and unconscious states. When they’re unconscious they don’t have needs and desires.
tell that to the stains on my sheets, buddy. |
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whaleross
lemmy.world
whaleross@lemmy.worldJoined: 2023-07-02 |
Oh boy. I was wondering the other day how Bcachefs is progressing but a casual search didn't hit anything in the nerd news. A quick browse on the dev page didn't really inspire looking further either. I guess this is why and that this is the end of Bcachefs then. At least no wives were killed in this filesystem. |
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DudeImMacGyver
kbin.earth
DudeImMacGyver@kbin.earthJoined: 2025-01-11 |
Horseshit. |
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Cort
lemmy.world
Cort@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-09-06 |
Ok. So Kent's LLM is a person. And Kent is practicing neuroscience on the LLM, which he believes is a person. Is Kent licensed to practice medicine? |
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vacuumflower
lemmy.sdf.org
vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org Joined: 2023-07-09 |
Oh boy. I was wondering the other day how Bcachefs is progressing but a casual search didn't hit anything in the nerd news. A quick browse on the dev page didn't really inspire looking further either. I guess this is why and that this is the end of Bcachefs then. At least no wives were killed in this filesystem.
The one where a wife was killed was really progressive, though. It's a shame it's dead. |
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jaxxed
lemmy.world
jaxxed@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-12-06 |
Overstreet's FS was in the mainstream kernel. Not anymore. So "throw out".
Bcschefs was removed from the kernel, but it qas because Kent doesn't play well with others, and not because of the technical side. BCachefs had a lot of potential, but it serves noone to end up in another Resier situation. Kent had a habit of pushing for wider kernel changes to support the FS, without working with the community, which will always break things. He is also very ego driven, and self-obsessed, which is not always a bad thing. Linus' person-to-persin issues always started from a technical perspective, so it is different. |
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boonhet
sopuli.xyz
boonhet@sopuli.xyz Joined: 2025-06-16 |
Which Linus are you referring to, exactly? Because the toxic one is the YouTuber and the comment seems to refer to Torvalds.
Torvalds literally had to take a hiatus because of how toxic he'd gotten. Luckily he didn't deny it when it was brought to his attention and he's gotten better now. |
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flightyhobler
lemmy.world
flightyhobler@lemmy.world Joined: 2025-03-08 |
Torvalds literally had to take a hiatus because of how toxic he'd gotten. Luckily he didn't deny it when it was brought to his attention and he's gotten better now.
I didn't know that. Thanks for enlightening me instead of just down voting. |
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boonhet
sopuli.xyz
boonhet@sopuli.xyz Joined: 2025-06-16 |
I didn't know that. Thanks for enlightening me instead of just down voting.
I think we're falling into the old reddit trap of just assuming every comment is in bad faith or motivated by cultish support or hatred of a subject, rather than realizing that sometimes people are just uninformed. |
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