cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/64434174

That actually fits in well with how a 1920s era tough guy would talk.

Read the novel "Red Harvest" by Dashiell Hammett. It was written about that time. Hammett was a real life Pinkerton operative [private detective] who wrote about what he knew. If the plot seems cliché it's because it was ripped off a dozen times I know of.

Never knew Hammet was a Pinkerton!

I agree, the line works for the cliché.

The German dubbing of TOS was an embarrassment. For some baffling reason, they treated it like a comedy rather than the sci-fi classic it is. Spock was cracking jokes, plotlines were butchered - things didn't make sense.
The comedic tone was a product of the era’s dubbing trends in Germany and a creative choice by the dubbing team, in a try to make the show more appealing to the German audience.

Further reading: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/adventures-in-german-star-trek.275740/

There are a lot of Hammett novels out there.

"Hammett" by Joe Gores and "Ragtime Cowboys" by Loren Estelman are both worth a read, imho.

This is a great true story. Hammett used 'the rag lay' in a story and the editor censored it because it sounded dirty. Even after Hammett told him it meant stealing linens off of clothes lines they kept it out. In his next story, Hammett introduced 'punk' and 'gunsel.' Both were accepted even though both meant homosexual.

Yeah, I'm a Hammett fanboy

I'll see you and raise you.

Lindsey Davis does a series of mysteries set in ancient Rome. We know very little about the actual slang Roman plebeians used so she had to make up a lot of 'tough guy' language in her books.

There are people who take old movies and then make trailers in different genres.

"The Sound of Music" as a horror movie, or "The Shining" as a comedy.

[off topic?]

The Guys and Dolls crossover that is inevitable.

Wow, never knew gunsel meant homosexual, and just rewatched The Maltese Falcon the other day!

Edit - just checked the etymology and look at that!:

gunsel(n.)
by 1910, American English underworld slang, from hobo slang, "naive young boy," but especially "a catamite;" specifically "a young male kept as a sexual companion, especially by an older tramp," from Yiddish genzel, from German Gänslein "gosling, young goose" (see goose (n.)). The secondary, non-sexual meaning "young hoodlum" seems to be entirely traceable to Dashiell Hammett, who sneaked it into "The Maltese Falcon" (1929) while warring with his editor over the book's racy language:

"Another thing," Spade repeated, glaring at the boy: "Keep that gunsel away from me while you're making up your mind. I'll kill him."

The context implies some connection with gun and a sense of "gunman," and evidently that is what the editor believed it to mean. The word was retained in the script of the 1941 movie made from the book, so evidently the Motion Picture Production Code censors didn't know it either.

The relationship between Kasper Gutman (Sidney Greenstreet) and his young hit-man companion, Wilmer Cook (Elisha Cook, Jr.), is made fairly clear in the movie, but the overt mention of sexual perversion would have been deleted if the censors hadn't made the same mistaken assumption as Hammett's editor. [Hugh Rawson, "Wicked Words," 1989, p.184]
also from 1910

Edit: Do you suppose he used "gunsel" like we use "your bitch" today, as both a dig at Kasper and an insult to Wilmer?

Wow, fascinating. So a couple of guys who did a lot of dubbing work sort of created this gonzo style and got away with applying it willy nilly. I mean I get it. Sometimes you have to get weird to keep yourself awake at work. The Wikipedia article mentions further down that one of the editors they worked with “suspected a joke.” :D

Yes.

Back in the day, a catamite was the lowest of the low.

https://youtu.be/PRQ2zN6fJ0U

https://youtu.be/21I17__MSTw

Clips from old Hollywood movies showing stereotypes.

Also, I'm going to have to throw 'catamite' at some folks and see if they know what it means.

Thanks for the links - interesting stuff