But oh man are there some absolute ham sandwiches in the highest echelons of federal government doing some hella illegal things.

to that, trump says: nuh uh

the hammiest sandwich

Innocence is at least as imaginary as borders are, you're trying to have it both ways in one argument.

Sure, if you’re looking at innocence as some sort of perfection. We’re all aware true innocence doesn’t exist, Socrates. Those people ICE are kidnapping are still innocent.

Not in that way, in the way that they're ideals, concepts that are emergent in society. In that respect borders are arguably more real than innocence, able to objectively pointed out and having a direct influence in the world. We hope (another thing that is not real) innocence does have it but that is far more difficult to measure.