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Sacrificing realism for game balance
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Gladaed feddit.org Gladaed@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-06-26
#52 · Quote Reply

In real life they're mounted to vehicles. AFAIK, you can thank the 1987 movie Predator for the idea that someone could walk around with a minigun as a personal weapon Now I'm going to have to go watch that movie again. Not only was it so influential that it introduced the idea of miniguns as human-portable weapons to games, it's the source of this meme and what's not to love about a movie with ...

How much could it possibly weigh?

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sp3ctr4l lemmy.dbzer0.com sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Joined: 2025-04-10
#53 · Quote Reply

It's not even that realistic. In real life, you need to apply constant pressure downward to keep a machine gun firing level, but not constant movement. Yeah, exactly. Pushing downwards slightly with a thumb stick / joystick might be a reasonable approximation. But, the whole thing you're trying to do is to prevent any movement. But, I like your idea for the shifting aim point. If they ever try ...

You could do the same with a mouse by making it so if you hold the trigger down, the mouse now acts like a joy con, based from where the mouse / aimpoint was when you began to hold down the trigger.

IE, instead of mouse movements being absolute, it now acts as a mouse to joycon emulator.

Aimpoint/camera rotation is now accelerating by the amount the mouse is moved away from the 'began to hold down trigger' point, as opposed to being 1:1 movement.

With controllers, you could also do the sort of wiimote style, most controllers have spatial awareness via acceleromators these days... but that would reveal to players how weak their arms are, so it wouldn't be very popular, lol.

But, for some reason, thats completely fine and normal and accepted for VR controllers, VR FPS games.

Hell, there's the old glasses that people would get for milsims and sometimes flight sims, for games where your weapon/interaction aimpoint, and your viewpoint, are disconnected and can be moved independently.

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mapleseedfall lemmy.world mapleseedfall@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-08-23
#54 · Quote Reply

I guess that if I was trying to make realistic game, I would give the player multiple lives. Each mission, there is a large number of friendly troops trying to advance through each area. Whenever the player dies, they swap into one of the surviving soldiers. The game is over if the troops run dry. This allows us to have each and every weapon on the field be fully effective for both sides. There...

I remember playing something similar to this on a ps2. you can press a button and youd swap with friendlies

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JackbyDev programming.dev JackbyDev@programming.dev
Joined: 2023-06-13
#55 · (edited) Quote Reply

I guess that if I was trying to make realistic game, I would give the player multiple lives. Each mission, there is a large number of friendly troops trying to advance through each area. Whenever the player dies, they swap into one of the surviving soldiers. The game is over if the troops run dry. This allows us to have each and every weapon on the field be fully effective for both sides. There...

This is sort of how Battlefield, Battlefront, and Helldivers 2 work, but you play as an incoming reinforcement, not someone already on the field.

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Slovene feddit.nl Slovene@feddit.nl
Joined: 2023-07-12
#56 · Quote Reply

How much could it possibly weigh?

At least 1 gram. Maybe even 2.

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EndlessNightmare reddthat.com EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
Joined: 2024-03-24
#57 · Quote Reply

it costs two hundred thousand dollars to fire this gun... for twelve seconds.

Chris Rock: “You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders."

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EndlessNightmare reddthat.com EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
Joined: 2024-03-24
#58 · Quote Reply

Shotguns are also nerfed in games with respect to their effective range.

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Delphia lemmy.world Delphia@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-09
#59 · Quote Reply

How much could it possibly weigh?

Ok now from memory a gm m134 minigun shoots around 6000 rounds per minute at full tilt, weighs between 19kg and 39kg not including the 24v battery to power the gun and a 7.62x51mm cartridge weighs approximately 25g each.

So ballpark. You're looking at about 20kg for the gun and battery alone minimum and to shoot for 1 straight minute you would be humping 150kg of ammo.

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Xerxos lemmy.ml Xerxos@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-11-19
#60 · Quote Reply

Same with flashlight batteries in horror games

Or weapon degregation in any game... Sorry this METAL weapon can't be used for more then a few minutes?

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Korhaka sopuli.xyz Korhaka@sopuli.xyz
Joined: 2025-01-14
#61 · Quote Reply

Are any of them so astoundingly expensive? Now that you mention it I do remember going into debt from bullet costs in armored core 4

From the Depths can be, it costs materials so you need to take it into consideration when building. If you design it well it should be fine but designed poorly you can easily run out of materials for supplying your guns with ammo. Or even run out of fuel.

Also got games like escape from duckov where you need to buy/make/loot every single shot.

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agamemnonymous sh.itjust.works agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-15
#62 · Quote Reply

it costs two hundred thousand dollars to fire this gun... for twelve seconds.

$400,000, actually. $200 custom tooled cartridges at 10,000 rounds per minute

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excral feddit.org excral@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-06-25
#63 · Quote Reply

It's the same for weapon ranges. Assault rifles have an effective range of more than 300m IRL, but it's commonly less than 100m in video games

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dan1101 lemmy.world dan1101@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-12
#64 · Quote Reply

Bringing back the trauma of Breath of the Wild where melee weapons break after a few hits.

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tiramichu sh.itjust.works tiramichu@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2025-06-04
#65 · Quote Reply

Same with flashlight batteries in horror games Or weapon degregation in any game... Sorry this METAL weapon can't be used for more then a few minutes?

Or how flashlights make a little circle of light in otherwise near-total darkness, as opposed to real flashlights which light up a pretty wide area.

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ptu sopuli.xyz ptu@sopuli.xyz
Joined: 2025-06-04
#66 · (edited) Quote Reply

I guess that if I was trying to make realistic game, I would give the player multiple lives. Each mission, there is a large number of friendly troops trying to advance through each area. Whenever the player dies, they swap into one of the surviving soldiers. The game is over if the troops run dry. This allows us to have each and every weapon on the field be fully effective for both sides. There...

D-day on Arma Reforger sounds amazing

Edit: Yay it’s in the workshop
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/64FD6D514EAB1A2C

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Hathaway lemmy.zip Hathaway@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2023-07-01
#67 · Quote Reply

It's the same for weapon ranges. Assault rifles have an effective range of more than 300m IRL, but it's commonly less than 100m in video games

Yeah also, real life, you’re not shooting 300 m very often. Your rifle may be capable of it, you’re not. With any real effect anyway.

Source: former infantryman

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LifeInMultipleChoice lemmy.world LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-17
#68 · Quote Reply

Same with flashlight batteries in horror games Or weapon degregation in any game... Sorry this METAL weapon can't be used for more then a few minutes?

Next thing I know you are going to tell me that punching trees isn't an effective way to collect wood.

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LifeInMultipleChoice lemmy.world LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-17
#69 · Quote Reply

For real. Complaining about the realism of a trope sparked by a T-800 ripping the minigun off of a helicopter due to superhuman strength is more than a little silly. Ohp. Actually, it looks like Castle Wolfenstein did it first. Still, silly.

Look man I don't care that you've got an AK that looks like a black colored pencil. My gun is gold plated so if it shoots you in the arm you die instantly

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hzl piefed.blahaj.zone hzl@piefed.blahaj.zone
Joined: 2025-09-20
#70 · Quote Reply

Look man I don't care that you've got an AK that looks like a black colored pencil. My gun is gold plated so if it shoots you in the arm you die instantly

Goldeneye was fun.

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Alberat lemmy.world Alberat@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-02-03
#71 · (edited) Quote Reply

Same with flashlight batteries in horror games Or weapon degregation in any game... Sorry this METAL weapon can't be used for more then a few minutes?

this can all be solved with expert world-building: for example, maybe the nighmare creatures siphon the energy of the flashlights? and for breath of the wild, maybe dr. eggman has secretly infiltrated the world's metal supply chain and sabotaged it with poor alloys.

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merc sh.itjust.works merc@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-09
#72 · Quote Reply

Ok now from memory a gm m134 minigun shoots around 6000 rounds per minute at full tilt, weighs between 19kg and 39kg not including the 24v battery to power the gun and a 7.62x51mm cartridge weighs approximately 25g each. So ballpark. You're looking at about 20kg for the gun and battery alone minimum and to shoot for 1 straight minute you would be humping 150kg of ammo.

In the famous scene in predator, they fired for 45s and the gun was tuned down from the typical minimum of 2000 rounds per minute to just over 1000 so that you could actually see the barrels spinning.

1000 / 60 = 16.667 rounds per second

45 seconds of shooting

750 rounds at 25.5 grams each = 19.125 kg

That's a lot more reasonable. In that scene at least, the guy fires every bullet available because he's so freaked out, so what Jesse Ventura's character was carrying was a 40kg gun with 20kg of ammo.

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luciferofastora feddit.org luciferofastora@feddit.org
Joined: 2025-02-07
#73 · Quote Reply

Yeah also, real life, you’re not shooting 300 m very often. Your rifle may be capable of it, you’re not. With any real effect anyway. Source: former infantryman

Is it a matter of stopping power or of precision?

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Duamerthrax lemmy.world Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-08-27
#74 · Quote Reply

If you have a minigun and not enough enemies on screen not to need it running constantly, you're doing it wrong.

Or better, dual miniguns.

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luciferofastora feddit.org luciferofastora@feddit.org
Joined: 2025-02-07
#75 · Quote Reply

[deleted]

I suppose a Fallout style power armour would have an energy source built in that could power the motor as well, and the weight of the ammo backpack would balance the weight of the gun, obviously assuming that the armour can properly distribute that weight so it's not directly carried by the human within.

Still, limited ammunition is a buzzkill in the kind of context you'd give a player that gun: We want the power fantasy, dammit!

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In lemmy.world Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-18
#76 · Quote Reply

Next thing I know you are going to tell me that punching trees isn't an effective way to collect wood.

I walk round my house eating little pills. If I stay still the ghosts eat me.

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Hathaway lemmy.zip Hathaway@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2023-07-01
#77 · (edited) Quote Reply

Is it a matter of stopping power or of precision?

Precision. It’s really hard to see anything at 300m with the eyes. You can’t shoot what you can’t see. You very rarely have clear sight lines out that far, and even when you do, it’s hard to put anything on a human sized target that far.

At 300 m the naked eye sees a person as about the size of a grain of rice.

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Mwa thelemmy.club Mwa@thelemmy.club
Joined: 2024-06-27
#78 · Quote Reply

TIL, that rotary machines guns spin to cool down.

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Soggy lemmy.world Soggy@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-01
#79 · Quote Reply

TIL, that rotary machines guns spin to cool down.

It's more that using multiple barrels keeps any one barrel from heating up too quickly, and it's easier to have multiple barrels than entire firing assemblies.

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TheSeveralJourneysOfReemus lemmy.world TheSeveralJourneysOfReemus@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-01-24
#80 · Quote Reply

In real life they're mounted to vehicles. AFAIK, you can thank the 1987 movie Predator for the idea that someone could walk around with a minigun as a personal weapon Now I'm going to have to go watch that movie again. Not only was it so influential that it introduced the idea of miniguns as human-portable weapons to games, it's the source of this meme and what's not to love about a movie with ...
[deleted]
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TheSeveralJourneysOfReemus lemmy.world TheSeveralJourneysOfReemus@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-01-24
#81 · Quote Reply

In the famous scene in predator, they fired for 45s and the gun was tuned down from the typical minimum of 2000 rounds per minute to just over 1000 so that you could actually see the barrels spinning. 1000 / 60 = 16.667 rounds per second 45 seconds of shooting 750 rounds at 25.5 grams each = 19.125 kg That's a lot more reasonable. In that scene at least, the guy fires every bullet available bec...
[deleted]
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nightlily leminal.space nightlily@leminal.space
Joined: 2024-08-08
#82 · Quote Reply

Precision. It’s really hard to see anything at 300m with the eyes. You can’t shoot what you can’t see. You very rarely have clear sight lines out that far, and even when you do, it’s hard to put anything on a human sized target that far. At 300 m the naked eye sees a person as about the size of a grain of rice.

It’s not impossible. I used to bullseye Womp Rats in my T-16 back home.

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Hathaway lemmy.zip Hathaway@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2023-07-01
#83 · (edited) Quote Reply

It’s not impossible. I used to bullseye Womp Rats in my T-16 back home.

Never said it’s impossible. You just won’t do it. A standard (American army) infantryman has a red dot. Non magnified. With adrenaline, moving targets, trying to not die, you will not be effective at that range.

You can use overwhelming volume to suppress, but, realistically, you’re going to close the distance. In a straight up infantry on infantry engagement anyway, which is a rarity.

Edit: just realized the Star Wars reference lmfao my bad

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Valorie12 lemmy.world Valorie12@lemmy.world
Joined: 2024-12-30
#84 · Quote Reply

Shotguns are also nerfed in games with respect to their effective range.

For good reason tbh.

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merc sh.itjust.works merc@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-09
#85 · Quote Reply

[deleted]

Portable Howitzer is basically a good marketing name for a mortar.

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[object Object] lemmy.world SlurpingPus@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-11-03
#86 · Quote Reply

Someone on Reddit actually did the math on this 5 years ago. The scene in Predator where someone holds down the trigger and fires continuously for 45 seconds is actually vaguely possible. The gun weighs 39 kg or 85 lbs, so it's possible for a soldier to carry it, especially the soldiers in Predator who are shown to be much, much stronger than the average soldier. The ammo used in 45 seconds wou...

You forgot the weight of the battery for the motor that rotates the barrels. Afaik in the film a wire was run through the actor's pants.

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merc sh.itjust.works merc@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-09
#87 · (edited) Quote Reply

[deleted]

Someone posted an excellent video of what the recoil is actually like. It fires the same rounds as an M14 rifle. So, per round, it has the same recoil force. Because the gun is a lot heavier the acceleration of the gun due to the recoil is smaller. But, the force per bullet (or the impulse) is the same. The greater number of bullets means that the total force is higher. But, it's smoother because of all the extra mass.

The end result is that an M14 slams into the shooter's shoulder, but the minigun is like a gridiron football player trying to shove the shooter backwards.

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merc sh.itjust.works merc@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-09
#88 · Quote Reply

You forgot the weight of the battery for the motor that rotates the barrels. Afaik in the film a wire was run through the actor's pants.

If the gun runs out of bullets in 45 seconds, you could probably get away with pretty small batteries. The main thing it's doing is spinning a barrel, which you could probably do with a hand-held drill. The trick is that you don't want to wait while the barrel spins up, so you want enough power to get it up to full speed very quickly, which means a lot of initial power drawn from the battery, then a lot less to keep the barrels spinning.

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brognak lemmy.dbzer0.com brognak@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Joined: 2025-06-04
#89 · Quote Reply

If you have a minigun and not enough enemies on screen not to need it running constantly, you're doing it wrong. Or better, dual miniguns.

All I saw was the title and a teeny tiny thumbnail, and I already knew it had to be Serious Sam lol

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Naz sh.itjust.works Naz@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-18
#90 · Quote Reply

Never said it’s impossible. You just won’t do it. A standard (American army) infantryman has a red dot. Non magnified. With adrenaline, moving targets, trying to not die, you will not be effective at that range. You can use overwhelming volume to suppress, but, realistically, you’re going to close the distance. In a straight up infantry on infantry engagement anyway, which is a rarity. Edit: ju...

This is true. I played a lot of VR "full realism" games and frequently my squad couldn't see anything far away (not to mention VR resolution is quite a bit lower than real life)

We resorted to one of us carrying a dedicated 7.62×51 semi-auto rifle with a long range optic (which was me) and a backup weapon. One of the guys carried a spare box of 100× 7.62 just in case, and it worked out great.

Ironically, using the long range optic like a spotter scope was almost as effective as hitting guys on towers, I struggled pretty badly if they were laying down, and the longest hit in the game was 482 meters (yards) on a guy who wasn't moving at all, and took 3 tries.

Source: Ghosts of Tabor

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Delphia lemmy.world Delphia@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-09
#91 · Quote Reply

In the famous scene in predator, they fired for 45s and the gun was tuned down from the typical minimum of 2000 rounds per minute to just over 1000 so that you could actually see the barrels spinning. 1000 / 60 = 16.667 rounds per second 45 seconds of shooting 750 rounds at 25.5 grams each = 19.125 kg That's a lot more reasonable. In that scene at least, the guy fires every bullet available bec...

You arent wrong, maximum numbers vs minimum numbers.

Fact is though that by turning the gun down to 1000 rounds per minute you're only exceeding the m249 by 150 rpm and carrying a weapon at least 13kg heaver to do so. (Yes the 249 is chambered in 5.56 so its not apples and apples)

At the end of the day it COULD be done, its just not the tool for the job. Its enough weight that dude would effectively be stationary at which point you might as well pintle mount the damn thing, attatch a giant ammo can and turn it right the fuck up.

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JcbAzPx lemmy.world JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-06
#92 · Quote Reply

The beginning of that movie always takes me out. So they fly in on a helicopter, there are 3 visible helipads (well, 2 and then sand) in a line and they land on the one to the right (from the water perspective). They get out, get in jeeps, drive for a few seconds to the left side of the helipads driving onthe ocean side and then get out?! Movies used to just do random shit for vibes and logic c...

They spent most of the money on Arnold and the predator effects. Reshoots on establishing shots wouldn't have been in the budget, so they make do with what they got on the day.

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SlinkyBlack lemmy.world SlinkyBlack@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-29
#93 · Quote Reply

Bringing back the trauma of Breath of the Wild where melee weapons break after a few hits.

the main reason I didnt bother with tears of the kingdom

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87Six lemmy.zip 87Six@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2025-09-19
#94 · Quote Reply

For good reason tbh.

Nah fuck that let me blast a guy's guts out the stratosphere from 20 meters away

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Alenalda lemmy.world Alenalda@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-21
#95 · Quote Reply

Nah fuck that let me blast a guy's guts out the stratosphere from 20 meters away

Rip bad company 2

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humorlessrepost lemmy.world humorlessrepost@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-30
#96 · Quote Reply

TIL, that rotary machines guns spin to cool down.

This is why double penis dude had double penises. Refactory time be damned.

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merc sh.itjust.works merc@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-09
#97 · Quote Reply

You arent wrong, maximum numbers vs minimum numbers. Fact is though that by turning the gun down to 1000 rounds per minute you're only exceeding the m249 by 150 rpm and carrying a weapon at least 13kg heaver to do so. (Yes the 249 is chambered in 5.56 so its not apples and apples) At the end of the day it COULD be done, its just not the tool for the job. Its enough weight that dude would effect...

I don't think the 1000 rounds per minute would make sense in any scenario other than a movie or video game. If you're going to the trouble of carrying all those extra barrels around, you want to be firing at a rate high enough that a single barrel would overheat. But, if you're firing at 2000+ rounds per minute, the recoil quickly becomes unmanageable for someone on foot.

Multiple barrels makes sense for a CIWS gun because you're shooting at something flying at you extremely fast so the time it's within the gun's maximum to minimum range is short. Similarly, it makes sense on a plane, like the A-10, because the plane is moving fairly quickly and it might not be able to aim at the target for very long. In both those scenarios you want as many bullets on the target in the short time window you have.

For a door gunner on a helicopter, I imagine the main goal is to suppress the enemy. Accuracy is less important than keeping their heads down. You want one man to be able to suppress possibly a platoon on the ground. The weight of the gun doesn't matter since the helicopter is carrying the weight, and the amount of ammo it uses isn't too important because the engagement will be pretty short (just enough time to get in and get out). So, a minigun makes sense because it can send a continuous stream of bullets into a general area for tens of seconds without running out of ammo or overheating.

I can't imagine a scenario where it makes sense for a soldier to be able to carry and fire a minigun while standing up. Maybe there's a scenario where it's a crew-served weapon that you carry and set up quickly. But, even then, surely 10 rounds per second is going to be enough, and all the extra barrels are just weight you don't need? The only time I can see them really being useful on the ground is defending an outpost of some kind. There have been scenarios like that where the engagement lasts so long that machine guns overheat. 1/6 of the heating and 1/6 of the wear and tear on each barrel might make the extra complexity, weight, and electrical requirements worth it.

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Sv443 sh.itjust.works Sv443@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2025-02-05
#98 · Quote Reply

the main reason I didnt bother with tears of the kingdom

Wrong reason not to, cause they did kinda in a roundabout way fix that without fully removing the durability system.
Also you could play it but with a FPS unlock mod and infinite durability mod on emulator.

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Jännät sopuli.xyz jaennaet@sopuli.xyz
Joined: 2025-06-28
#99 · Quote Reply

TIL, that rotary machines guns spin to cool down.
[deleted]
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NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ lemmy.world NikkiDimes@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-04
#100 · Quote Reply

[deleted]

...more barrel = more bullet? 🥴

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Burninator05 lemmy.world Burninator05@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-30
#101 · Quote Reply

...more barrel = more bullet? 🥴

I mean, thats not wrong.

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