Link: https://theconversation.com/40-of-teenage-boys-believe-women-lie-about-domestic-and-sexual-violence-new-research-276978

Support for violence to resist feminism was highest among adolescent boys (28%), followed closely by adolescent girls (21%).

Perhaps most alarming: roughly 40% of boys aged 13 to 17 agreed that women lie about domestic and sexual violence.

These results raise crucial questions going forward. We don’t yet know how these views have changed over time, whether they are on the rise and what the links are between violent extremism and the negative treatment of women.

I don't think that a poll which indicates that one in five girls supports violence to resist feminism should be interpreted without any reservations, as this article seems to be doing. The number of adolescents who support endorsing violence in order to mess with uptight pollsters is apparently quite high...

As for lying - it's a matter of fact that people, including women making accusations of serious crimes, sometimes lie. Maybe there's more to that question than is presented in the article?

I genuinely question if this is some sort of trend and not just how it has always been.

Cuz 40% of teenage boys being idiots seems kind of timeless. Definitely lines up with the numbers we're seeing in adult men.

"Teenage boys are fucking morons".

Groundbreaking research.

No, I just question the methodology and the message they're trying to send

I don't follow

The amount of women who lie about violence against them is probably a lot higher than that, and the lie is that it's not happening to them.

Had me in the first half.

"40% of teenage boys are violent brainwashed sexists" fixed that statement.

Right from the start I will state I know the plural of anecdote isn't evidence. But I have a friend who has given up teaching year 11/12 athletic development and now teaches grade 7 pe. Primary reason is the mysoginistic shit she had to put up with from the boys who felt their gender made them better at anything sports related than her. She would compete in triathlon in her spare time with all the training & commitment that entails, and yet the podgy, vaping 18yo man children would tell jokes with each other about how she should go back to the kitchen "where she belongs".

When we were discussing this amongst a group that included 3 other female teachers every one of them agreed they are seeing more of that sort of crap every year. My guess would be all the Manosphere brainrot is having an effect. Couple that with kids around that age feeling the urge to be as edgy as possible...

I have noticed once or twice that my sons have started talking that way due to a combination of online and peer influence and I have stepped in to disabuse them of the notion that their chromosomes make them special or superior. But it's the world they live in and I pity the kids without a parent who is keeping any eye on them.

Read the comments in this thread, read this:

"Social research has shown boys and men increasingly feel alienated, humiliated or uncertain about their place in the world."

We just need to call young men stupid one more time guys and gender equality will be achieved. No wonder they feel they're being lied to.

Misogyny is certainly a huge issue among young men.

I'm not sure about this research though. It's always concerning when they don't publish the actual data and questions et cetera.

Perhaps most alarming: roughly 40% of boys aged 13 to 17 agreed that women lie about domestic and sexual violence.

This one really, really depends on the question. Both men and women often lie and say that their partner doesn't hit them. This is pretty well known actually. You'd have to be pretty naive to think it doesn't happen.

Occasionally I'm sure that both men and women do lie and say that their partner does hit them, for a variety of complex reasons. An acquaintance of mine, a woman, signed a declaration to say that her partner hit her and then during court proceedings she admitted that was a false statement. Uh oh. Anyhow, it's certainly a thing that happens.

Does that mean all women who claim to be victims of domestic abuse are liars? Certainly not. But are lies told about domestic violence? Of course.

Support for violence to resist feminism was highest among adolescent boys (28%), followed closely by adolescent girls (21%).

This is also curious. Obviously alarming, but how does one use violence to resist feminism? I'm genuinely confused as to what is meant by this. If you had asked 15 year old me, not really knowing what feminism is, I would have assumed it meant some kind of armed uprising of women, and yeah I would have said that in that context violence is ok.

Some respondents justified violence in the private sphere. If a woman disobeys in the home, a man should be able to control her with violence.

I notice that this fiery little truth bomb is tempered to "some respondents". How many is some? I guess 2 at least.

Again, misogyny is a huge problem. It would be extraordinarily difficult to be a female teacher. My son is too young to have encountered this stuff but it's definitely on my mind as we navigate the coming years. However, I think this article is intended to be incendiary rather than tease out the nuance revealed by their "research".

It would have been really great if they linked a detailed breakdown of the information gathered in the article. Swear to god every article that says "we did a study" never show the fucking study. Like come on let me see the data.

Okay so what are the real numbers on what proportion of women lie about domestic or sexual violence? What proportion of claims are fabricated?

You're right. I guess I was just following the same train of thought as the whole, "There were not less autistics before the internet." logic.

I only have male friends who teach but they all agree that critical thinking and cognitive function in general have plummeted. And we're in Canada!

Thank you for being the kind of parent the world should have more of. Kids are dumb but curious by nature, and need a guiding hand to direct them away from misinformation, propaganda, and other toxic things they have no way to discern from truth before they have the experience to tell them apart.

Like come on let me see the data.

It's probably paywalled eh.

Our research:
In our recent national survey of Australian adults and adolescents, we examined general misogynistic attitudes and support for violent extremism.

Not sure if this is what they’re referring but am also curious how this survey was conducted.

For example the question “do you believe women lie about DV/SV”. As someone who had a parent lie about related matters, I could answer yes, but is that what the question is actually asking? It seems to be asking if women, in general, lie about them. Obviously, no they don’t, but you can see how a question especially when posed to teenagers may lead to responses easily sensationalised by a news outlet. The inverse of this questions seems to be “do you believe women never lie about DV/SV?”

There’s a reason self reported surveys are a nightmares for academics to use for meaningful data. Worth pointing the rest of the article has a lot of valid and concerning material that isn’t somehow magically undone by the articles research methods.

Just a reminder that this is a summary of an academic paper by a reputable university.

In our research, we differentiate between interpersonal experiences, anchored in close relationships, and intergroup conflict that has generated a sense of “us” versus “them”: men versus women. We then examine how this intergroup social conflict is driving radicalisation.

‘Teenage boys should get to say wildly misogynistic things with no social repercussions’ is absolutely not how you wind up with men who have normal relationships with women.

I don’t think I’ve seen a study with solid methodology break 5%, and it’s usually in the 1-2% range.

Training boys to be douchebags is why this is happening.

This was a preview summary of the data that's awaiting publication by the University of Melbourne. It covered 1,100 people aged 13-17, and has been written by the Professor of Educational Psychology & Learning, Faculty of Education, The University of Melbourne.

Who said that?

Yeah they're being courted by the far right because the far right aren't calling them idiots. Really not that hard to grasp.

If it is I wouldn't be able to find out because it's not linked to in the article .

yeah let's just conveniently ignore the part where nearly the same number of adolescent girls also think violence should be used to oppose feminism. That part is very interesting, and a reason why this research is important.

Or…. ‘Teenage boys repeating the lies they been told by only group not shaming them for existing.’

They are victims of the circumstances, but because they are male, too many people act like its it’s okay to blame them.

How cute, they're the fucking nazis of tomorrow. Bitchslap 'em to the ground and tell them they're lying when they start crying, that'll teach them to discard other people's truth.

I see. They are douchebags because people observed they are douchebags. That makes sense, if you are a fucking moron. The real test is to determine if me pointing out that you are a moron has actually turned you into one.

Well, reply so we can see.

The evidence presented to the South Australian Royal Commission found that false reports of sexual or domestic violence are rare, likely under about 5% of reported cases, and the Commission treats the belief that false allegations are common as a misconception not supported by research.

https://www.royalcommissiondfsv.sa.gov.au/

Some moron on lemmy.

If they word it like they did in the article I think asking their research question (asked to kids) was itself reinforcing a harmful understanding of gender and the kind of characteristics that can be applied to them. Individuals lie. Entire genders do not. Basically nothing applies across the entire category. In high school (the age of a lot of these respondents) they teach you to watch out for tricky multiple choice questions that sneak in an over inclusive option.

People who are treated like outcasts behave like outcasts. The judgment becomes self-fulfilling.

The solution to this problem is inclusiveness and socialization, not further judgment and ostracization.

If you didn't think I was already a moron why would you call me one? Are you really incapable of seeing how difficult it is for me to engage constructively with your argument while you are constantly interweaving it with personal attacks? I couldn't ask for a better example of how calling people dumb makes it hard for them to engage with your ideas. Again, no wonder young men with no experience are being entrapped by the far right.

Just remember, folks, divide & conquer is the oldest trick in the book.

They want us fighting the culture wars so we don’t fight the class war.

Link?

The far right are calling them idiots which is the weird thing. You ever pay attention to how those influencers speak to them? They basically neg these kids.

Absolutely, I was so frustrated that I couldn't find the data. They didn't show their working so all I have to go on in terms of believing them is their reputation.

Right so that's who did the research but it doesn't show the results or their methodology. These are super important things to know!

Normally Conversation articles link to the study in question, but this one hasn't been published (yet). Not sure why the editor(s) didn't just wait for that first. I agree that it's lacking detail/context and feels a bit incendiary without it.

More than 17% of all Australians agree feminism should be resisted with violence.

This stat in itself is wild. 1 in 6 Australians think feminists should be physically attacked. Who are these psychopaths? Which part of our society has let us down so badly and how do we fix it?

Yep this is classic rage bait media.

Its not anyone else's job to fix you.

Yes, this is a stupid post because it was made by a person that was called a moron, not because it was made by a person that is actually a moron.

Its easy to find. Click on your username. Go to "comments," its probably three or four down.

Good point, I would be interested in learning more about that. I feel like it may be because the insult is always a precursor to their actual message. For example "you're a loser with no girlfriend, but it's because women only respect alpha males. Here's how you become one..." It uses their insecurity to sell them misogyny and right wing ideology. I think that's structurally different to and mentally easier to accept than how a man might be insulted from a left wing perspective. Example: "you're a loser with no girlfriend because you're an incel who hates women."

Objectively the left wing one is closer to the truth and heeding its advice would be more likely to socialise them and put them on the path of finding love and companionship, but it's pretty obvious to see which of the two a young inexperienced and insecure man would be more likely to follow.

A very normal, and rational series of sentences. Maybe you could call the crying teenagers you’re standing over in your fantasy “pussy” after you “bitchslap” them. Right before you beat into them the idea that violence is bad too, of course.

The concerning thing to me is not the numbers themselves but the way kids with no other obvious connections to hate (e.g. my father is a wife-beating neo-Nazi) are developing these belief systems through unrestricted exposure to the internet. It's part of a much bigger problem that includes things like religious extremism and racism. In many cases they aren't going out of their way to find these rabbit holes, either. Social media algorithms recommend Andrew Tate type shit and then bombard their feed with even more of that stuff after the first watch, and adults would never know until the kid gets to the point where it's developed into a core life philosophy for them and is affecting their real world behaviour. This can happen at any age, of course, but it's just sadder to me when it's young, impressionable minds that are being taken advantage of.

Regardless thanks for the solid explanation.

Nice, if it's real easy to find you should have no problem doing it then. Good luck!