Ohh, so I get to pick which awful country is better? Cool choices.

Edit: aaaaaaand the tankies show up.

Why do you think China is awful?

Fire ass name btw

I'm so tired

Thank you Comrade Sharkfucker 🫡

Dictatorship might seem appealing while democracy is failing, but we should never give up on democracy in exchange for safety and stability.

China has democracy. Just not bourgeois liberal democracy. The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people’s democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local levels are directly elected, and then these representatives from around the country elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Also due to the nature of things the vast majority of representatives are among those directly elected by the people. You should research things before you just say things. And we're very happy with our system. Even Harvard puts the approval rating around 95%.

Both states are awful.

Wow, that was hard.

While I don't posit that China is uniquely awful here are some low lights:

• The oppression of the Uyghur Muslims
• The invasion of Tibet
• The threatened annexation of Taiwan
• The Tiananmen Square massacre.
  Shall I go on?

You can’t give up what you never had. Previously.

It’s not wrong to say regulatory capture is a problem, it just doesn’t go far enough. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

The game is rigged. The election cycle’s pomp and circumstance is to divert your energy and attention from the fact that it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.

Being wrong takes no effort.

They're both bad...

You’re the 573rd person to point these out to us. You can go on, but we’ve heard them all before.

Previously:

We’re doing this again?

I’m pretty sure virtually all of the Tibetan people are happy to no longer be suffering under theocratic feudalism. Happy to no longer be illiterate serfs and slaves living in depredation under a god-king. I doubt many of them are sad that CIA asset Dalai “suck my tongue” Lama is in exile.[1]

Previously:

Xinjiang/The Uyghurs

The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing terrorist cells in Xinjiang, and once those efforts failed, it concocted and promoted a genocide narrative. Antony Blinken is still pushing this slop, just a few weeks ago.

• The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
• The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
• Uyghur genocide allegations
• American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
• US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
• A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China

.
The blueprint of regime change operations

We see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.

Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.

The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.

Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.

Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).

Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.

---

Tiananmen riots

• The Tian’anmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.
• 1989 Tian'anmen Square riots
• A Note on the Tiananmen Protests
• Images from Tiananmen 1989 the West never shows (NSFW / CW: violence and death)
• Tank Man video footage. Tiananmen Square, Beijing, 1989
• How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning

Previously:

Taiwan claims to be an independent nation ready to resist China

And yet only a dozen UN member states recognize it as an independent state.

I’d love to know which Taiwanese say that.

Pretty much all of them? It’s even in the ROC’s constitution. Both the ROC and the PRC claim all of China, including the island of Formosa.

• Oppression of Uyghur ISIS terrorist members.
• Liberation of British-colonized Tibet, run by a local theocrat that enslaved most of its people and by enslaved I mean they had officially been designated as serfs to the state, as human property of the clergy, by law.
• You can't annex your own country, but what you can do is support an expelled far-right party of a country that kills the indigenous people of an island and pretend that these murderers are somehow the victims.
• The Tiananmen square insurgency was a CIA-backed coup attempt where the insurgents murdered 100+ Chinese army choir soldiers that were on their way to the square to sing out the protesters off the square.

Go on...

How do you justify all the censorship and working 996 for an example?

Waiting for Liberals to actually have a thought out response to the excellent resources the MLs of this community provide.

Polls in authoritarian countries are notoriously more positive about own countries than in democratic ones due to insane amount of propaganda (yes, even compared to US). In which next country do we di polls next - Russia or North Korea?

My Chinese friends living in New Zealand as dual citizens are afraid to criticize the Chinese government even in private online conversations. That says a lot, I think.

*Run

China is still the world's leading polluter, in a time where those so-called "scientists" most definitely know what they're doing contributing to global climate change like they are. No country is innocent, but making no attempt to not be first isn't a defensible policy position.

You have it the wrong way around: Chinese democracy is appealing while western capitalist dictatorship is failing.

"During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum."

Blackshirts and Reds, Michael Parenti

previously:

China is the world’s biggest emitter of carbon gases**

Yeah, because it’s the second-largest population in the world and it’s producing & exporting the world’s products. You don’t get to de-industrialize, import your products, and then chastise your producers for using more energy than you, when they’re using that energy for you.

China is also the largest green energy user and producer of green energy technology, which it also exports.

The Economist: China’s clean-energy revolution will reshape markets and politics

Previously:

No one will deny that China has censorship. We do as well, but it’s more subtle, covert, informal, and sophisticated, which Michael Parenti and Noam Chomsky have explained in great detail. China’s censorship is largely out in the open. It’s made clear where the lines are. The press freedom in bourgeois democracies, A.K.A. social democracies, is the freedom of the media owned by the capitalist class and by the government, a government which is run by the capitalist class.

“996” was never legal nor pervasive, and the state cracked down on it years ago. Western media will always make a mountain out of a molehill to maximally smear China, because the Cold War never ended.

ROFL. Stow the faux benevolence. It's nonsense. Nobody is acting out of the goodness of their hearts in a capitalist transaction. They're choosing to pollute instead of choosing to do other things. That's not for anyone's benefit but their own. The long-term consequences are so well-understood that only the extremely selfish are optimizing for the short-term.

China's choice to build a national highway system instead of a national railway system wasn't done with ecological concerns as the priority. They're, again, choosing to pollute more purely because of the short-run benefit instead of doing something else that optimizes for humanity's collective benefit.

So weird how the supposedly collectivist country isn't acting in all of our best interest. Communism is an idea so good that they'll silence you forever if you disagree.

Anything possible when you make shit up 🤷

Meanwhile in the real world:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_usage
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-speed_railway_lines#Overview
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country

996 seems like a concept copied from Korean and Japanese workplace culture. It would probably be fairer to look at some underlying common circumstances

Behold the peak of liberal geopolitical analysis

God I would hate to have my life expectancy doubled, truly evil shit

I have some bad news about the democracy you think you have

"Umm they're they Bad Country sweaty you can't trust the people there. Just like the other Bad Countries!"

You are a political toddler and the fact that you don't understand this while our side diddles kids and bombs elementary schools is insane

I'm sure the people of Tibet would much rather have continued living as barefoot slaves under a medieval theocracy of pedophile priests who tortured them, sexually abused them and made arts and crafts out of their body parts.

CW Insane Leatherface-type Horror Shit, including a flayed toddler skin: https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/tvs5pj/remembering_tibet_here_and_there_warning_graphic/

I can always tell when someone doesn't know shit about Tibet beyond what they absorbed from 90s pop culture when their reflexive, programmed hatred for China leads them to side with the absolute nightmare kingdom that the PLA liberated people from. If you would have a problem with Mormons taking over all of America and imposing brutal Deseret Law on millions of people, then boy do I have some fucking news for you about Old Tibet.

Fuck the overlords, fuck the llamas

Now look up "Taiwan White Terror".

Thank you for answering. I will take a look at your claims.

not per capita though

instead of

🤡

ROFL. Stow the faux benevolence

Go back to Reddit

I’m tired of being surrounded by propaganda. Do better.

Is the lower photo real or AI? It looks like an album cover.

Yay politics in my memes again.

That says a lot, I think.

It certainly does but mostly about them lmao. If you ever end up living in China you'll come to realise criticizing and debating about the government is like the second most popular conversation topic. We love it, it's almost a national pass time.

Well for a start 996 is illegal so I don't think I need to justify that.

And censorship can be annoying but is far less pervasive than you people imagine. The amount that is censored is probably on par with that of the western world, China is just open about where the lines are. Even then it's entirely confined to the digital domain/media you can still talk about whatever you want which becomes very clear if you ever get a taxi lmao. Some amount of censorship is good anyway, fascists should be censored for example.

It was a thing in ~40 of the big tech firms during the 2016-2019 tech boom, the supreme people's court explicitly ruled it illegal in 2021 and with the 2025 consumption boost plan more frameworks for cracking down on excess overtime alongside enforcing rest and vacation rights better alongside many other things is being put in place.

Their were excesses during the ETIM crackdown no doubt, however much of those have since been rectified and the crackdown was unfortunately necessary. The crackdown was also far more humane and reasonable in response to the terrorism in comparison to the western world that spent decades killing hundreds of thousands to over a million innocents in the middle east (not to mention Abu gharib, Guantanamo and the other black sites).

Tibetan serfs and slaves requested the PLA's help in overthrowing their violent theocratic slave state.

Do you support the reunification of Ireland? Do you support the reunification of Korea (who reunified with who being irrelevant)? Are you a supporter of the American confederacy? Why should China not be allowed to finish it's civil war? Also invasion is the last resort, peaceful reunification is the ideal.

A violent clash between police and protesters (who started the violence) over 35 years ago makes China awful? Certainly an interesting perspective.

So we're just too subhuman and brainwashed to answer a Harvard poll about our thoughts correctly?

No, you were just incorrect