edit Shame on the entire Lemmy World mod team for locking this thread, you are participating in an evil you don't want to mess with that will consume you. Children are dying as we speak and you have all atrociously failed your duty to ethically moderate and steward a community. You hurt this place.

This is a serious problem for y'all, I know you removed him as a site wide moderator, but it is simply not enough. You are endorsing someone who has a CLEAR pattern of silencing discussion about a particular group of people and if that doesn't alarm you, you need to wake up and pay attention.

Looking back there is a repeated pattern of removing, silencing and acting derisively towards discussion about Palestine and the Palestinian Genocide from Jordan Lund both from my interactions with him and also from others I have found easily from searching.

Deal with this problem.

See this post

https://sopuli.xyz/post/42491951

..and this post.

https://sopuli.xyz/post/42630105

Edit shame on the Lemmy World team for ignoring this post or trying to find lazy ways to dismiss it.

This should serve as a warning to all, do not depend on Lemmy World communities, diversify to different servers as there is a serious distortion of reality going on here about what is allowed to be talked about and what is not. The consequences are real and we could not be discussing a more serious subject of censorship than the Palestinian Genocide and the politics around it.

They also hold the opinion that the only valid news sources are corporate and billionaire-owned news sources. They are a danger to the fediverse.

Agreed. Worst of the worst mod for several reasons.

Per site bylaws on community mod removal, can you provide an argument for this case addressing the relevant rules directly?

See my linked posts for an exhaustive argument with sourced links and context. If you have any questions please ask.

I saw: still needs a proper argument.

What part needs to be elaborated? Ok I will format a comment if you want it just feels like copying and pasting into a format that loses even more context.

Futher, I am not sure I trust having a conversation with y'all here? Lemmy World needs to prove to me they won't silence me because they don't want to have a discussion about this before I invest time carefully wording and formatting a post here just for it to get silenced/removed.

I know this is a big headache for them, it would be so much easier to just call me a shrill troll who isn't genuine in their beliefs at all and just wants to stir the pot, and that makes me extremely wary to invest my time making a point here in a way someone like Jordan Lund can flick with a finger and make go away.

When they do I will absolutely put in the effort of moving that kind of discussion over here, but until then sorry I just do not see proof of trust.

For now I refer you to the abundant links I gave that cannot be directly removed, silenced or taken down by Lemmy.World mods.

edit ok let me begin my conversation here with a quote from Jordan Lund

Please review the posts you had removed and explain how these are, in ANY way US Politics:

https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-replicating-its-gaza-war-tactics-lebanon

Any mention of US personnel? Policy? Politicians? No? Goes in World. Not Politics.

https://dawnmena.org/destroying-al-shifa-hospital-robin-andersens-the-complicity-lens-us-media-coverage-of-israels-genocide-in-gaza/

What the US media does or does not do is also NOT politics. Again, appropriate for World, not Politics.

https://www.alai.info/en/corporate-participation-and-complicity-in-the-genocide-against-the-palestinian/

Similarly, what US corporations do is not Politics. World please.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/there-no-ceasefire-gaza

You are correct, there is no cease fire in Gaza, who is doing the shooting? Israel.

None of these stories are remotely similar to stories about US mercenaries taking action in Gaza. That's why they were removed from Politics.

https://lemmy.world/comment/22677703

..and so I open this conversation with a question to you, do you earnestly believe this is a functional, well adjusted way to moderate a Politics community? Can this strategy and way of understanding politics possibly work even outside the thorny question of US-Israel politics?

Edit To make my criticism more specific

Sometimes called the “either-or” fallacy, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides to an issue when there are actually more complexities. Essentially, a false dilemma presents a “black and white” kind of thinking when there are many shades of gray.

The simplest form of a false dilemma would be a question like: “do you want ketchup or mustard on your hot dog?” Why not both? Or neither? Or maybe a salad? We probably encounter these harmless false dilemmas often in everyday life. Sometimes, simplifying the number of choices available can even be a useful way to reach a consensus.

However, false dilemmas can become harmful when they’re used to purposely exclude options in order to distort an argument. False dilemmas can also be used to imply that two contrasting positions are actually contradictory. We’ll see an example of that in our comic below:

https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-false-dilemma/

This is precisely what attempting to separate the US and Israel in terms of political discussion does.

This still? Give it a rest.

Have you even bothered trying to contact admins before starting this up?

They have contact info that you're supposed to use for shit like this

DM https://lemmy.world/u/lwreport

Email mailto:report@lemmy.world

PGP: https://keyoxide.org/hkp/report@lemmy.world

The admins already said they're okay with it. Putting it here gives more visibility into all the issues jordanlund creates by his moderation style and comments in places he's not a mod.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/24968209

And admins saying they are upset but not enough to do anything https://lemmy.world/post/36621226

Make sure to link to the other thread where the admins said it would be addressed as it's obviously not

https://lemmy.world/post/36621226

An explicit argument consists of citing the relevant rules, stating how they've been violated, and providing evidence.
It shows you've done the bare minimum to show your claim is plausible.
This is in everyone's interest, especially yours as the interested party.

As basic advocacy, an explicit argument should be expected: if you're unable to articulate a decent argument, then how can you expect others to do so for you?
Leaving that guesswork to others may not necessarily work in your favor.
Do you really want to leave the best argument to chance & the unreliable charity of others?

An objective, sound argument may draw popular support by convincing them your claim is legitimate & just and demands action regardless of where admin decision ultimately settles.
Not attempting one, however, draws all of it into question.

When he actually get removed for breaking rules that the admins have said he needs to stop breaking, sure.

At this point what does a private conversation mean to everyone else who cares? I am just another loud annoying voice.

I want a public conversation NOT hosted on Lemmy World where people are publicly held accountable.

I have, on the threads I linked, why should I trust my posts to be moderated in good faith here? It is obviously apparent at least some of Lemmy World staff are friendly with Jordan Lund, this is likely messy af for Lemmy World admin.

I have provided abundance evidence, so have others.

I provided the bulk of the evidence on a third party community for a reason, and it is perfectly rational.

Because if you haven't bothered to follow the internal process for that instance, then you're just stirring shit, no matter how bad lund is.

Apparently the admins are fine with your post, so I'm fine with it too. Just saying that shit stirring is a pain in the ass and if you want to actually try to get a change made, you don't start off by ignoring the established avenues of action.

It's just a bad idea to essentially flip off the very admins that would be the ones to take any action when trying to get them to do so. People have limited patience for fuckery to begin with.

You do you I guess. But being real, this kind of thing is more likely to end up with people blocking you the same way they have lund and then what have you achieved? Nothing.

At the time I made the comment, there were no statements from admins in the thread at all.

But if they don't care, it's all good :)

It's okay for his behavior???

Because too many just want everything handled in private so it's easier to ignore

precisely

They're all comprador, at best.

You can't talk about someone publicly for their public actions, that's too mean.

You can banish users for talking too much about what mods don't like, that's fair game.

Huh? That makes no sense based on the comment you're responding to

But if they don't care, it's all good :)

Loser behavior.

Why dont you give us all a rest by posting your boring and abusive take someplace else. Looks like you are running interference for mod abuse so you should be banned along with Lund.

@lwadmin@lemmy.world hey Jordan is attacking user on other servers and breaking tos in multiple ways. Going to do anything about it this time?

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/65405478

Just gonna add him being as ass as I see them here

• https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/25006595
• https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/24993288
• https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/24993148
• https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/24992577
• https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/24984347

Watch, they won't. They'll say they'll discuss it with him and do nothing. Their trolls (Jordan, PJ, Rheori, many more) are good, calling them out is evil.

Edit: weird how they just give us proof, isn't it? Do they search for usernames being mentioned? Is it a bot script for .world that if you talk about their active users they get pinged?

nah thats dumb. just go through the process, like, what if the process sucks? what if the process sucking is intentional? also since when do i need someone's permission to speak my mind, whether it's labelled stirring shit or not? especially when it's criticism of someone with the power to censor my speech. nah fuck all that.

🐕💩

So strange that a brand new account I’ve never interacted with suddenly called me out for no reason.

If only that MonkeyNuts or HatorAids or Eugene Debbie (or whatever they’re calling themselves now) was still around. I’d bet they would have an opinion on this.

hello completely organic thread with completely legitimate users who are definitely not alts

lemmys serious business mmkay?

The rules clearly state that that comm is for US politics only.

Saying that shit happening in Gaza is US politics because it’s US made weapons is flimsy at best. Jordan has spoken out on many occasions on the subject and probably agrees with you more than you’d care to admit on how things are being handled there.

He’s just upholding the rules of the comm.

As has been pointed out- You have no argument supporting your accusations here. Your links only verify that you did not follow the rules of that comm even after you were told what they were.

And before you go accusing me of bOoTliCkiNg rhetoric, go ahead and check my history and see that I’ve been moderated and banned from that sub several times.

Just follow the rules man. There like, 30 or so other places you could post those links. You’re just trolling the comm at this point repeatedly posting that.

(Disclaimer: I am fully aware that this is a nuanced take and this is lemmy. Therefore by default, I fully expect no one to even try to consider any of this)

Flame away!

The rules clearly state that that comm is for US politics only.

My contention, which I have clearly delineated in my comments links and sources, is that you cannot state such a ridiculous policy and hope to apply it with any consistency, whether it be a problematic inconsistency such as around the Palestinian Genocide or more harmless species of inconsistency where the word "Blog" is enough to automatically bar an article from the community even when the contents of the website are clearly not a "Blog" in the way the rules intend to specify.

Jordan has spoken out on many occasions on the subject and probably agrees with you more than you’d care to admit.

No, Jordan's beliefs scare the shit out of me, they are set up in gleeful ignorance to turn around and blame Israel and jews for this massive mess we have gotten ourselves into, it is so clear how the story being set up intentionally, unintentionally or some mixture of the two is leading towards really scary anti-semitism as a replacement for more serious conversation about the direct complicity of the US along many different dimensions in the Palestinian Genocide. Jordan's beliefs lead straight into squeezing your eyes shut, putting your fingers in your ears and saying "na na na I can't hear you!" when the world tries to get you to reckon with the reality of the colonialism you are participating in, the reality that Israel is very much an echo of the US in some ways. Then after they go away, you open your eyes, see everything is on fire and then point at jews and say "What is happening!!!!!! They LIED to us! They backstabbed us! Our greatness was sabotaged!".

Jordan repeats that the Palestinian Genocide is awful but that the US didn't know and cannot be held responsible for what Israel is doing. Not only is it an amateur understanding of geopolitics to think the world works in such neat and clean divisions, it is a dangerous fairy tale to believe in that disguises a more complex reality where we are far more complicit in the suffering around us than we want to admit.

Just follow the rules man.

Rules are not neutral, you cannot dismiss my criticism of them by just telling me to follow them.

There like, 30 or so other places you could post those links. You’re just trolling the comm at this point repeatedly posting that.

Please provide proof I am trolling, I post lots of links about a variety of topics. Only one very narrow category seems to get moderated by Jordan Lund and it worries me, it should worry you too.

You’re trolling because you were told the first time not to post those links in that comm and continued doing so.

All the rest is irrelevant. The rules are stated, and it’s been determined that your posts violate those rules. That’s it.

If you don’t like it, just don’t post there. As is usually advised in these situations- make your own comm and post whatever you want. But if you post in others, you are subject to their rules and their interpretation of their rules.

That’s how it is.

You’re free to block the comm, and in your case, i recommend you do as it seems its visiblility is enough to entice you to continue violating their rules.

But at the end of the day, he’s not breaking any rules. They are clearly stated. You’re just looking for trouble.

You have provided no proof I am trolling, please stop accusing me of it.

The rules of the comm are proof. Your screenshots are proof. At this point, you’re just trying to take the piss.

Rules are not neutral, you cannot dismiss my criticism of them because in your perception of things I did not follow the rules if my contention is correct since there is no way for you to be sure the fractured understanding you have of a moderation policy built on a logical fallacy is the same as mine.

The only way to be sure we are operating under consistent logic is to adhere to a moderation policy not built upon a logical fallacy so we know if we both agree on the same starting axioms that we can suss out a logical connection between our two points of view.

This really isn't even about me being right in my particular political arguments, there is a fundamental philosophical faceplant Jordan Lund is doing here about the basic mechanisms of geopolitics that transcends the specifics of any of my particular arguments.

Unfortunately the consequences are not abstract, we are talking about discussion around a Genocide.

Sometimes called the “either-or” fallacy, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides to an issue when there are actually more complexities. Essentially, a false dilemma presents a “black and white” kind of thinking when there are many shades of gray.

The simplest form of a false dilemma would be a question like: “do you want ketchup or mustard on your hot dog?” Why not both? Or neither? Or maybe a salad? We probably encounter these harmless false dilemmas often in everyday life. Sometimes, simplifying the number of choices available can even be a useful way to reach a consensus.

However, false dilemmas can become harmful when they’re used to purposely exclude options in order to distort an argument. False dilemmas can also be used to imply that two contrasting positions are actually contradictory. We’ll see an example of that in our comic below:

^insert "US Politics" and "US Vassal State Politics" in for "ketchup and mustard"

https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-false-dilemma/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassal_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzerainty

And now the top .world defenders have logged on and said we're illegitimate for asking rules to be followed. Lord.

Might as well have no rules if anytime you disagree with a mod breaking them, trolls come from the wood working.

I think Jordan must have linked here, his devoted defenders are here now, with no evidence or intelligence from good faith from them.

I think Jordan must have linked here, his devoted defenders are here now, with no evidence or intelligence from good faith from them.

I think Jordan must have linked here, his devoted defenders are here now, with no evidence or intelligence from good faith from them.

And have goat calling it botted

Please defend against his bullshit, I have my work to do today unlike him. He intentionally didn't respond to any of the users who actually can debunk his shit.

Amazing how you can call our trolls and they join the thread. Goat and Rhoeri, speak the devil's name and the devil appears.

But Jordan's defenders have logged on here to say he's actually not thar bad!

The complete irony of you making the claim.

completely organic thread

We are discussing something that relates to Genocide, so yes, this is actually kind of serious even if I don't really matter and my emotions are utterly frivolous, which obviously I don't think is the case but even in that event there is still a broader problem here.

Please behave like an adult about this.

JFC dude… read the rules of the page in the sidebar. You’re trying to sound intellectual, but all you’re doing is just trying to justify trolling.

I’m not arguing this with you. You are in the wrong despite your inability to accept it.

So, MonkeyNuts, I’ve made the admins aware of your little alt you’ve rolled up here, so keep your nose clean.

😂

They take ban evasion pretty seriously if you remember.

I’m not arguing this with you. You are in the wrong despite your inability to accept it.

Thank you for publicly stating your conscious dereliction of responsibility to engage in good faith here.