It has been a long journey.

I have been gradually convincing my family, close relatives and friends to make the switch to Signal for over two years. I am already the "tech support guy" in all my circles so most didn't really question it. Most of my friends are quite tech-savvy, and some even did use Signal before I talked to them about it.

This also filtered out some "friends" who were never that close to me to begin with. So, that's a bonus, I guess.

Overall, my recommendation to others interested would be to tell people how much you don't like Meta's business model instead of the privacy aspect. I already ditched Facebook and Instagram many years ago, and this helped defend my point a bit better.

I've done it quietly 4y ago, only told some closer relatives. It was kind of funny when relatives I wasn't talking to told my closer ones that we were keeping in touch on WhatsApp, not even aware I wasn't in the platform for over 6 months at that point.

Now after years and leaving 2 family groups, politics, and a whole lot of drama behind, I feel it was a great decision, and the only regret was not doing it earlier.

An inspiration. I salute you, sir. I'm attempting the same.

Yeah I made the call a couple months back and it felt really good to be done

I'm planning to delete my WhatsApp by the end of the month and have used Watomatic to send an out of office like message during this month saying I'm no longer reading WhatsApp and how to contact me (Signal, Threema, email). Worked great! Pushed some groups I'm on to Signal without me even asking! The beta group function is still a bit buggy. But would definitely recommend.

Lucky, my social circle's technologically illiterate AND doesn't care what happens to their personal data so I'm stuck with both Facebook & WhatsApp :/ One saving grace is that I don't have either installed on my "main" phone.

Signal's not great for privacy either tbf - Meta is just a very very low bar to be better than.

In my country nowadays you can't even contact companies and services through regular phone number, you gotta message them on Whatsapp, and I mean, you use Whatsapp to talk with the guy from your neighborhood that fixes roofs to international banking institutions.

Something that needs to be reversed as soon as possible.

In latin america, this is basically impossible. This also covers people who message a lot of people in latin america.

They may technically be able to switch, but most of latin america uses things like whatsapp for official communication.

Signal's not great for privacy either tbf

Why do you think so? Yeah, it is not anonymous due to requiring a phone number, but all media and metadata are end-to-end encrypted.

Signal is way, way better than what you currently have

I feel bad for Europeans or folks who need what's app. Needing Big Tech that impeds social media into your texting app is insane.

Which Europeans need WhatsApp?

Ended up having to do some more digging on Signal as I was under the impression more metadata was getting left unencrypted than there is.

My bigger concerns are with whom Signal employs and the very questionable decisions the company's made.

Their VP of engineering was at Facebook managing Onavo VPN when that was spying on teenagers using Snapshat. Then, Signal had known their desktop encryption keys were stored in plaintext for six years and only fixed it after public outrage.

To the best of everyone's knowledge, Signal's netcode is solid, but leadership with a history in privacy scandals & negligence towards clear privacy holes is very iffy IMO.

What I currently have for privacy is SimpleX - not needing a phone number alone beats Signal - but I've also got only a single contact there so it's not replacing WhatsApp anytime soon 🤷‍♂️

And to think in ~6 months you’ll probably need to go through that whole song and dance again when you switch them to Matrix 😔

Why is that?

Yep. I've seen a lot of WhatsApp icons during my trip!

eversince i started using beeper im contempt HAAHAHH all my messaging needs in one app running on device<33 (would love if it'd be foss but it is what it is)

Can you expand a bit what you tell people about not liking Meta's business model? I got some people to follow me to Signal, but only for messaging with my husband and me. They don't really care for the privacy aspect, so I'm curious about your other arguments!

I don't think I've ever actually used WhatsApp. An old boss tried to tell me that it was mandatory for my job (there was a group chat where management insisted on tracking every single thing we did). Fortunately, Ontario has somewhat decent labour laws where if you're required to use an app or something on your phone, your employer now gets to pay for your phone bill! Needless to say, she backed off pretty quick lol

Also, the concept of NEEDING WhatsApp for daily life is wild to me. It's not the norm for businesses, banks, etc to require it, and if someone says they do, it's probably a scam here...

WhatsApp has significant market dominance in Europe, to the point that only one or two people I know who live on that continent don't use it. If you give someone your phone number in Europe, they will almost certainly send you a WhatsApp message, not an SMS.

It's not a need in the sense that you'll die without it, but not having it adds significant friction to social relationships.

It's definitely unfortunate that it's a proprietary closed system owned by big tech. On the other hand, SMS/MMS is a pretty bad user experience by comparison, and it's unencrypted.

That's... Wow! Here, people prefer to use non-SMS options for messaging too, but if you give someone a phone number it's pretty much assumed you're getting an SMS unless they ask if you have WhatsApp, signal, or whatever else. That said, using Messenger is still pretty common here, as much as I'd wish it would die off. It is, slowly, but it needs to be quicker lol

If I put someone's number into the contacts on my phone, I will see what messaging apps are connected to that phone number in most cases. If they have Signal, I'll try that first. I'll try WhatsApp before SMS because it's a better user experience and probably encrypted.

Okay, that's both cool and scary lol and Fair, yeah. I think WhatsApp would be the last on my list. I'd rather my telecom company siphon the data over Meta, but I get you

How much of the data Meta can siphon is an open question as I understand it. WhatsApp definitely uses encryption, but there are a bunch of ways the client could send them the cleartext, especially if one allows their chatbot into a conversation.

It's hard to say which is worse. I have a fair number of contacts on Signal now, and I find that's a good balance of easy and trustworthy.

Good job!

My distrust of Meta wants to say they somehow siphon everything, but you're probably right. We don't know for sure, and speculating is probably just crazy-making at the end of the day.

I'm seriously just considering setting up a self hosted Matrix instance and piping all my chat apps through that. Get the more tech literate friends on something more secure, and then be done with the rest lol I'm basically already the unofficial (and untrained) sysadmin for my property lol

Congrats! I know too many foreigners to get rid of WhatsApp. I try to count my blessings that it's not WeChat or Facebook Messenger that inexplicably became popular worldwide.

It's cool because online based chats have more features but are more susceptible to enshittification. A federated, online based, encrypted open standard like Matrix is the future.

The problem with universal clients like that is that it inherently breaks encryption, shares it with a third party, and then MAYBE re-encrypts it correctly. And it does not prevent the third parties like Discord or whatnot from having access to your messages just because you run it through Beeper. It still goes through them. It's not even particularly more convenient. You still have to create an account with the other provider, and often times this can only be done by downloading the app.

So there are a lot of downsides, and the only upside is not having as many apps installed, and I doubt you're hurting THAT bad for storage.

This is something I didn't realize until I traveled outside the US. In some places, WhatsApp is the default.

I've always been very anti-Meta, and refused to get on WhatsApp until I ran into that situation.

Great, just dont get too comfortable. The reason this laws exist is because workers in the past died to conquer it. If we stop fighting this will not be possible in the future. Fuck the capitalist class.

yay you did itt

Uhhh... Sure. I understand what you're saying, but this isn't really the right context for it lol

What's app was cool as shit, until, just like Michael Bolton, something shitty in the world happened.

I installed it for an upcoming trip with loathing just because I know I may stay in places and not be able to connect with a hotel or host if I don't use whatsapp. The EU better get their shit together since they were trying to lead on digital privacy...

Yep. That’s why we privacy sensitive people keep coming back for signal and matrix.

I don't know @SleepyPie@lemmy.world's reasons, but I am concerned about Signal Messenger LLC being based in the United States, and it being centralised, on AWS servers no less.

Well, some people called me paranoid and said "us regular people don't have anything to hide" when I told them how much data Meta collects about us. Of course, this frustrated me as my threat model is very small compared to most people here.

I explained how free services where instead the user is the product work, and how much I disagree with this model. I informed them that I use FOSS almost everywhere and that they exist for the greater good of humanity.

It's not really that they get the clear texts, but that they get access to who you talk to, when, and kinda how long are your messages. That metadata is super valuable. Over long periods, just with that metadata there's a lot that can be inferred.

At least Europe rarely uses WhatsApp for business purposes. It's worse in Asia and South America where WhatsApp and Facebook literally are the internet, including the enterprise space.

And the reason it's less the default in the US isn't because people are so forward-thinking to use signal, but iOS being so uniquitous that people use iMessage.

People everywhere are just somewhat lazy and just don't know better.

Congrats! I'm glad I never started using it, cause while it hasn't been easy I think it's likely much harder to get off of it. So good job!

And the reason it’s less the default in the US isn’t because people are so forward-thinking to use signal, but iOS being so uniquitous that people use iMessage.

I don't think that's quite it. iOS wasn't as popular in the USA when WhatsApp use really started to take off elsewhere.

Instead, I think it was a combination of unlimited SMS plans being the norm, and most Americans having few international contacts.

🎖️

Congratulations. For me, it was also nearly two years of work, it's just already a few years ago.

Thank you!

I need sometimes to create Whatsapp account for some purpose then I'm deleting it.

its more so instagram and others being attention hungry, using beeper allows me to get rid of the distractions and focus on whats important